Author Topic: Mistake in French Translation 2019  (Read 231 times)

Boris

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Mistake in French Translation 2019
« on: February 24, 2020, 05:59:26 AM »
Hello folks,

Someone from WPT Paris told me yesterday that he found a mistake in French version.
It is about Rule 18b
It says "Players who try to throw their card into the muck to avoid [showing their hand when called] will be penalised.

English version does not state this.
Also, I might be wrong, but I dont remember we had to validate this version.

Cheers

MikeB

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 12:08:14 PM »
Hi Boris:

Nice catch!
 
Keep in mind that players may face warning or penalty for any act that is opposed to the rules. I can hear TDA Founding Director Dave Lamb making this point. However, there is a distinction that some rules have required warning or penalty whereas other rules have optional penalty at TD discretion; see Rules 70 and 71.

But back to Rule 18-b, there's no stated requirement that the last aggressive hand must maintain his / her cards if they see themselves defeated at showdown. Case 1, aggressor sees defeat and tosses his cards towards the muck. No problem... if an opponent speaks up and says "I called and want to see that hand" it should be tabled, but there's no guarantee the cards won't hit the muck irretrievably first. Case 2, aggressor sees defeat while opponent speaks up "I called and want to see your hand". If the aggressor then attempts to hit the muck face down there's an argument for at least a warning at TDs discretion, especially if the dealer asks the aggressor to table. I probably wouldn't go to a penalty for first offense but it's at TDs discretion.

But if the French translation reads as you interpret, then that does seem over-stated. If it read "may be subject to penalty at TDs discretion" then it's reasonably consistent with implied warning or penalty as mentioned above.

This raises another question whether 18-b should have language to the effect that seeing the aggressors hand is not guaranteed. Caller can ask, but if in the circumstances the cards were previously mucked there's no guarantee of seeing them. Conversely we do say it is an "inalienable right to ask" so.... maybe best left as-is. Thoughts? 

Boris

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2020, 02:55:10 PM »
Hi Mike,

French version says "will be penalised" so we could update to "may get a sanction (warning/penalty)"

Although, we could put some light on a dealer behaviour who should always protect the muck. So the situation would  happen less often.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 02:56:19 PM by Boris »

MikeB

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 08:54:27 PM »
Hi Mike,

French version says "will be penalised" so we could update to "may get a sanction (warning/penalty)"

Although, we could put some light on a dealer behaviour who should always protect the muck. So the situation would  happen less often.

Boris: personally I like that alot better than "will be penalized".
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 08:57:38 PM by MikeB »

BillM16

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 07:27:07 AM »
Also, will the Recommended Procedures and Illustrations Addendum be translated into French?  I'm still hoping to include French in the iOS app if possible.

Boris

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 09:18:19 AM »
Ok, I'll try to translate the Addendum as soon as possible

Al1_CdC

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2020, 07:57:06 AM »
Hello,

Here in France we already worked on full translation (rules & Addendum & RP) but as Terence did a 'short version' which was validated by TDA, I don't know how to work further on this.

Not much difference between Terence's and our version of course, but we had some proposition for "better french" sentences so I don't know if it's a good thing to have short version from Terence and full from us.

And no news from Terence who didn't come on this forum since the end of his job on this, so I can't exchange with him.

BillM16

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2020, 09:05:55 AM »
Where can I find a copy of the French Long Version without red lines?

Al1_CdC

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2020, 09:14:19 AM »
No official version has been edited. I can propose our's, but it will be different from the short version by Terence.

BillM16

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2020, 08:55:22 AM »
I used Google Translate to create these French versions:

French Recommended Procedures
French Illustrations Addendum

I don't speak French.  Are these reasonably accurate translations?

Regards,
B~

Al1_CdC

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2020, 11:02:26 AM »
Understandable, but not really french :)

BillM16

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Re: Mistake in French Translation 2019
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2020, 12:24:57 PM »
That is interesting.  I have considered simply incorporating either the Google Translate or the Yandex Translate service into the mobile app.  That would give the app the ability to translate the English rules into 90 different languages whenever the user requested.