Author Topic: Some Fast Advice Required  (Read 6363 times)

Stuart Murray

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Some Fast Advice Required
« on: June 01, 2010, 01:16:11 AM »
Hi all,

A player in a franchise area not belonging to me has been caught cheating in game by his franchisee.  The player will be banned from all future games, however there is a National Final approaching on Saturday, 05th June 2010 which he has also qualified for.

The Franchisee wishes to dsq him from this event now, as she has had suspicions and complaints regarding his ethical conduct previously and during the Regional Final where he qualified for the National event.

She is however, worried about the legality of DSQ'ing the player now.  Comments and interpretations are welcome.

Stuart

Nick C

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 05:05:28 AM »
Stuart,

  That's very unfortunate. I think we need to know if you have any rules in writing, and what did he do? If you have proof, and it is serious, then he should not be allowed to participate in any events. What message would you send, if you were lenient?

Nick C

chet

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 05:43:59 AM »
Stuart: 

Adding to what Nick said, I think you need to look for some legal advice.  Since your operation is a franchise, are there any rules from the franchise issuer that govern such situations?  My personal opinion is that this person should be gone, no ifs, ands or buts.  That said, you need to be careful that you don't open yourself to some kind of legal action as it is apparent from your initial post that the infraction did not involve or occur at the National event.  Might there be some rules for the national event to the extent that disqualifies anyone from that event who has been disqualified from a qualifying event?

I would look for some legal advice.

Hope this helps!

Stuart Murray

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 05:47:46 AM »
Hi Nick,

1. Players who appear intoxicated, or act in a disrupting manner, will not be allowed to play/continue.
Players who act abusive, are ejected, banned from a venue for their behavior during a league event, or
found to be cheating of any nature will face a lifetime ban from the League.

"Currently, there is an investigation into the player, ************.  There may be a high chance he is cheating, but I am unable to catch him at present.  If I catch him before the nationals, I will check the protocal on this with Steve and Doug and get back to you.  The information that is being looked at is, taking blinds back into stack or when getting change, cupping extra in the palm of his hand."

She informs me she has been attending his venue each sunday in order to try and ratify the claims of cheating, which have now been ratified by her.

Based on what I have been told above I certainly would not let him play again in any event even where he has qualified for the National Final I do not think it is prudent to allow him to attend this event either.  I have went back several times to the thread about foreign 25,000 chips being brought onto the table:

http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=117.0

I think this situation is different in allowing him to continue as the Franchisee has witnessed his acts first hand, and I believe this should be sufficient to ban him, I think it is the same as a policemans word, the TD is the authority in the game and the franchisee is the authority for the games and responsible for her own regions players?

What are your feelings?

Stuart


Nick C

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 06:17:36 AM »
Stuart,

 Chet knows more about the franchise laws or rights of participants than I do. It's my guess that when this person is confronted with exclusion from any future tournaments, he will quietly disappear. Your situation is different from the link you posted because,  this person has been under suspicion for some time. He knows he is guilty, so, like I said, he will probably feel lucky about his exclusion from the tournaments, rather than face jail time or the humiliation of being caught. You have other things to do with your time. He won't change. He is beyond getting a warning. Get rid of him.

Nick C

MaxH

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 09:09:43 AM »
Stuart,
This would be my advice in order to circumvent the possible problematic UK legal aspects of this situation.
1. When confronted the player may claim innocence because without CCTV it is impossible to provide real evidence of cheating; however, he must be confronted and told about your suspitions.
2. Framing the accusations as 'suspicions' or 'strong suspitions' takes the legal bite out of the situation - you are not accusing him, they are suspitions.
3. Tell him that you are conducting an investigation, talking to players, talking to the TD and that he will have the opportunity to have his say.
4. Tell him that in order to be fair to everyone - him included - it is not possible for a player under investigation to participate in tournaments so he is suspended until the investigation is complete.

This process buys you time and means your tournament can go ahead without him; no one has actually accused him of cheating and no disqualification has taken place.
Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 09:11:26 AM by SuperCoach »
Max

Stuart Murray

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 09:30:03 AM »
Indeed,

Outstanding advice.  I think he has already be excluded however will be helpful for any situations I ever need to deal with.

Stuart

Martin L. Waller

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Re: Some Fast Advice Required
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 12:50:51 PM »
Stuart,

Things really get complicated since you are depending on the TDs word to expel him from a National event.
But, you are all under the same franchise and to keep the franchise strong you have to play under the same decisions as if you are one game.
If he is caught cheating in one room he has to be banned from all franchise events.
You canít allow him to leave one franchise location and continue in another or national event.

Honestly we need to get as many of these players out of the system any way.

Good games to you,
Martin