POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General

Folding OOT

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Nick C:
First of all...in the original post, the under the gun+1 player intentionally mucked OOT. He should have received a warning and should not have been given his cards back. That's it...no option because of action changing. His hand is dead!

TDA #40 Clearly states that out of turn folds are binding!


 

GreggPath:

--- Quote from: Nick C on June 15, 2018, 02:16:11 PM ---TDA #40 Clearly states that out of turn folds are binding!

--- End quote ---

I think you mean #44, but otherwise I concur.

Nick C:
Gregg, Yes you are correct it is TDA #40...thanks. haha...I meant #44

BillM16:
OK, so we all agree that the relevant TDA Rule is: 

An OOT fold is binding.

That sentence is clearly stated in 2015 TDA Rule #40 and 2017 TDA Rule #44.

How is it possible that the dealer or floor could be confused about this TDA rule?  Here is what I learned while discussing this with them.  Put simply, their interpretation and position is that "the OOT fold is binding ONLY if the corrected action doesn't change."

Here is 2017 TDA Rule #44, Part A:

44:  Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: Any action out of turn (check, call, or raise) will be backed up to the correct player in order. The OOT action is subject to penalty and is binding if action to the OOT player does not change.  A check, call or fold by the correct player does not change action. If action changes, the OOT action is not binding; any bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who has all options: call, raise, or fold. An OOT fold is binding.

My question to you is this:  Is there a way to make this rule more clear to avoid this confusion? For example, would this be better?

PROPOSED 44:  Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: An OOT action is subject to penalty and may be binding.  When OOT action occurs, play will be backed up to the first player skipped and resume in the correct order.  An OOT fold is always binding.  An OOT check, call, bet or raise is binding if the corrected action to the OOT player has not changed.  A check, call or fold by a correct player does not change action. When action changes, an OOT bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who may then call, raise, or fold.

Nick C:
Much better. There was always too much confusion about action changing, in my opinion. Did it mean if the corrected action was different from the OOT or what???

If I may, I'd like to add a suggestion or two. A: An OOT action is subject to penalty and may be binding.  When OOT action occurs, play will be backed up to the first player skipped (proper bettor) and resume in the correct order.  An OOT fold is always binding.  An OOT check, call, bet or raise is binding if the corrected action to the OOT player has not changed. STOP Does this mean that the action changed from what the OOT bet? example: OOT bets 100, the action is backed up to the proper bettor and he or she bets 100, would the OOT be obligated to keep his 100 in the pot? A check, call or fold by a correct player does not change action. When action changes, an OOT bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who may then call, raise, or fold.

 I think Bills suggested change is a step in the right direction but as usual, I've always had a tough time understanding this rule as written.

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