LIVE CASH GAME POKER RULES DISCUSSION > Live Cash Game Rules Questions

Weird spot on turn bet all in

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Uniden32:

--- Quote from: BillM16 on April 12, 2018, 07:37:30 AM ---IMO

One of the seats entitled to the hand doesn't have a hand and the other seat (the all-in player) has too many cards.  There has not been Substantial Action at this point as only one player has acted (the all-in player).  So, according to TDA Rule #35, Misdeals and TDA Rule #36, Substantial Action, this is a misdeal and should be dealt again without moving the button.

--- End quote ---

No action ?  They're on the turn ...


--- Quote from: StianFrost14 on April 11, 2018, 05:08:09 PM ---...Action pre flop and flop is irrelevant, on turn player 1 is all in...

--- End quote ---

In my opinion, both hands are dead.

As for Player 1, who's all in, as long as no one has called his all in, I'm likely to give him his chips back. 

If he was facing a bet, prior to going all in, the bet will remain in the pot.

StianFrost14:
The issue is not whether or not the hand is live, it’s 100% dead. What I’m wondering is what to do with the all in bet. IMO the only way to do it is to give the pot to player 2, but let player 1 keep his all in bet. This is what we ended up doing, and both players were fine with that. However, someone said he should forfeit his all in bet as well. A surprising amount of players and floor/dealers has agreed with this, something that in my opinion is a major overkill.

MikeB:

--- Quote from: StianFrost14 on April 13, 2018, 03:20:16 PM ---The issue is not whether or not the hand is live, it’s 100% dead. What I’m wondering is what to do with the all in bet. IMO the only way to do it is to give the pot to player 2, but let player 1 keep his all in bet. This is what we ended up doing, and both players were fine with that.

--- End quote ---

Stian: TDA Rule 65-A applies:
 
65:  Accidentally Killed / Fouled / Exposed Hands
A: Players must protect their hands at all times, including at showdown while waiting for hands to be read.If the dealer kills a hand by mistake or if in TDs judgement a hand is fouled and cannot be identified to 100% certainty, the player has no redress and is not entitled to a refund of called bets. If the player initiated a bet or raise and hasn’t been called, the uncalled amount will be returned.

In your example the hand is ruled to be fouled and is instantly dead at the time of foul; any pending uncalled bet should be returned. The scenario is not unlike the Baumann / Koroknai situation at the WSOP where Gaelle Baumann had not yet called at the point Koroknai's hand was ruled dead. She did not win the uncalled bet which was returned to Koroknai.

Thanks for the great case!

BillM16:

--- Quote from: GreggPath on April 12, 2018, 01:13:53 PM ---

But we are on the turn so Substantial Action has occurred. Rule 36, part B

--- End quote ---

Yep.  I missed that part. Disregard my response above.

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