Author Topic: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards  (Read 12262 times)

JohnFF

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Re: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 01:08:55 AM »
If Adam is skipped and Billy Bob bets OOT followed by Carly's call OOT, then substantial action has occurred and action cannot be backed up to Adam; therefore, he does not have the opportunity to now check. However, he should now have the opportunity to fold, call, or raise. I suppose a raise here would have the same effect as a check-raise if no OOT action had occurred, but technically, this is not a check-raise after the OOT SA.

Nick C

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Re: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 11:16:04 AM »
John F,
 
 You wrote: "If Adam is skipped and Billy Bob bets OOT followed by Carly's call OOT, then substantial action has occurred and action cannot be backed up to Adam; therefore, he does not have the opportunity to now check. However, he should now have the opportunity to fold, call, or raise." I don't think Adam should be allowed to raise...he may fold or call only.
 

Dave Miller

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Re: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2018, 07:26:25 AM »
Nick -

The skipped player should be punished because he said he hadn’t acted yet?

What if he said that nobody noticed that he originally checked, and is now going to raise?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Re: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2018, 12:44:28 PM »
Dave,

 If he checked, of course, he can raise...but then we wouldn't be talking about a skipped player. The way I see it: If Adam is skipped by Billy Bob and Carly... with Billy Bob betting out of turn, at the time of Billy Bob's OOT Adam, or the dealer or any other player should have said something to correct the action to the proper bettor. I'm sorry I can not agree with giving Adam the option to raise in this situation. I've always felt that once a proper bettor is skipped he or she should be allowed to immediately correct the mistake and back up the action to, in this case, Adam. TDA rules do not support backing up the action, even before the substantial action occurs.

Dave Miller

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Re: Action out of turn (2 checks) on the river, then players tabled their cards
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2018, 07:57:23 PM »
“Somebody should have said something”?
What if the OOT action was too fast to stop it?

It’s the players who act out of turn that should suffer the consequences.

If the skipped player wants to raise, let him!
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Dave,

 Sorry, I don't see it the way you do. I've stated that the skipped player should speak up and correct the action but once substantial action follows I will not allow the skipped player a chance to "sandbag" and raise after the action passes him or her by. I agree the out of turn player is the first offender, however, once substantial action occurs an obvious breakdown had to take place...by multiple players and the dealer. Why was the proper bettor skipped? Once skipped why wasn't the mistake corrected? Each situation could be different. Many times a player (in the 1 seat) will bet oot because he couldn't see the proper bettor in the nine or ten seat because the house dealer was blocking their view. That would be much different from a player deliberately remaining silent knowing he was skipped, yet allowing the action to proceed so he might gain information on opposing players. This is why I would not allow the skipped player the option to raise.

Dave Miller

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Nick -

Would you allow the “skipped” player to raise if he claimed that he actually did check - even if nobody saw / heard the check?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Of course not...if nobody heard him...he didn't bet! Tell the dealer what you're doing if you don't push out the desired bet.