4 basic situations!

[Guillaume Gleize]

Here are 4 questions on differents situations with my actual "solutions" (but I'm ready to change it depending on your advises):

1) When does the dealers are OBLIGED to count the chips in a NLH tournament?
   a) A bet of a player who push in the middle a pack of chips without annoucing the amount and who refuse to count it: YES!
   b) The difference between a raise and the initial bet (the initial better ask the dealer the remainder needed to call): NO! (most rooms do it to please the customers but on the rules the dealers are not obliged to do it: aren't the poker players supposed to know how to count?)!
   c) The rest of the chips in front of a player in the hand (someone in the hand asked for the remainding amount of chips in front of a live player which refused to count it): NO! (as long as the chips are correctly stacked) ... (most rooms do it to please the customers but on the rules the dealers are not obliged to do it!)!

2) Can a player STACK is chips in disorder? (all the chips are correctly stacked and 100% visible BUT all the colors are mixed): NO!
    (you must clearly stack you chips buy denomination because no dealer is obliged to count your chips if asked, so your opponents must be able to correctly evaluate the total amount)!

3) How many actions "in the dark" are permitted? Ex: 3 players still in at the flop but before the flop is showed the players go "in the dark":
   A: "I bet 1000"   B: "I call"   C: "I raise 4000"   A: "I go all-in" ... the dealer ask for the floor before putting the flop ... I only accept ONE action in the dark (here A must bet 1000) ... and ask the rest of the player to WAIT for the board card(s) to actually appear and to WAIT for the player "in the dark" to actually bet is announced amount. No penalty here for B & C (and I liberate them for any action) but I warm them not to do it again to avoid a penalty for repeatedly playing out of turn! (?)

4) How to manager a dealor error that makes a player showing "weakness" in a betting round? Exemple with 2 players left at the turn: BEFORE player A speaks the (tired) dealer announces "CHECK" for him (player A didn't allready moved neither say nothing) ... all this making player B (with a flush draw for ex) saying "CHECK" too ... player A complain & ask for the floor and the dealer recognize he made a TOTAL error with the anounce of a check ! ... Actually I follow the traditions, I responsabilise the players (and here B) and ask them to observe their opponents before listening to a dealer ... so here I liberate player A so he can act freely ... BUT isn't it too rude for player B (I think so)!

Thanks for your advises ...

GG

[Stuart Murray]

GG

Lots of questions to answer!

Q1, yes you are correct on all counts, but (and I will start another sword fight here) Good dealers will count chips frequently in many situations, if someone wants a count they can have it where a lot of chips are being moved IMO (abviously if it were merely a dozen chips I may take a slightly sterner line)

Q2, My personal preference is if there are a lot of chips in play for each player then yes they should be stacked with the highest at the front and so on, but in games where the players have maybe only 20 chips as long as they can be viewed I will not take offence at them spreading them Gus style.

Q3, In the dark, I am a fan of betting and raising in the dark, it is a good poker players ability to bet and raise without relying on the board, after all we do see too much board reliant play from weaker players, there are no rules to stop a full table betting, raising and folding before the flop has been dealt and providing everyone is keeping up with it I do not have any problem, again it is down to the better players, weaker players will not get into these situations anyway by waiting for the board before they decide what to do.

Q4, Depends on the situation, if I believe player a protected his right to act on his hand then yes I may revert the action back to player A but again I think this is a weaker player thing, and they would learn more by going to the turn remember two players acting after the player and they loose their right to act anyway.

Regards
Stuart

[Robert Irving]

i have to agree with stuart here, especially in terms of question 3. All player cards have been dealt and all verbal action ... being in correct order is binding. had it been a "check" "check" situation in the dark with two players then action would have continued. The ruling is no different because there is chips involved or more players. all betting was done in turn and indeed as stuart said and i agree.. stronger players play pre-flop poker and know when they are dealt a strong hand.

In any case, is the 'in the dark action' taking place before the dealer has had time to deal the flop and all blind levels have been called? because in this case the all in player in the dark is even giving the other players an advantage as it is said pre flop and therefore giving them a board to act on. but as a said it depends on the exact timing of the betting

THANKS

[Martin L. Waller]

Guillaume,
That’s a lot of info. Let me give it a try.

Q#1
As long as the chips are in the possession of the player the dealer wouldn’t count them.
If asked how many chips he has behind, the player isn’t even required to correctly answer. It’s bad etiquette not to but some will just show their chips and leave it up to their opponent to estimate the value.
If the chips are pushed out, as in an all-in or raise the dealer should announce the action but only count it down when asked by a player still in the hand. The good players already know how many chips are in play.

Q#2
As Stuart stated let’s not get too strict on the rules. Chips should be visible and the larger denominations in front. If a player is shuffling or rolling chips so what. If the chips are spread out I would ask them to be stacked if it becomes a hindrance to the action or play.

Q#3
All three players can act in the dark as long as it is in turn, B follows A and C follows B. It’s in turn and after the cards are dealt. Everything is cool.

Q#4
I hate it when a dealer goofs but it happens. Player A didn’t act so the action must go back to him. Like Stuart said, if the action had continued to three or four players and A didn’t speak up then he would have lost his right to recall the action.

Good questions,
Martin