POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2017 Summit

How do blind bets affect substantial action?

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MikeB:
If there are multiple blind bets (i.e. multiple actions with chips involved) prior to the initial deal, has substantial action occurred?

This subject is the topic of the following thread:
http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1378.msg12006#msg12006

Nick C:
Mike,

 Blinds should never be considered in substantial action unless there are at least two actions following the BB.

 the example given on the link you mentioned involved multiple "blind" bets while the dealer was dealing, and before players knew their own holdings. The question is: Should it make any difference? I say no...Bets were made and substantial action followed. That's how I see it.

BROOKS:
I know this situation isn't as common in tournaments as it is in cash games, but it does still happen.
For instance a short  stack going all in blind UTG and guy next to him calls (blind). What if this happens during the pitch, before the deal is complete, and you realize an error such as the puck being in the wrong spot. Do those 2 blind actions count as substantial action? Or can we call a misdeal and correct the error?

Max D:

--- Quote from: BROOKS on March 25, 2017, 06:57:50 AM ---I know this situation isn't as common in tournaments as it is in cash games, but it does still happen.
For instance a short  stack going all in blind UTG and guy next to him calls (blind). What if this happens during the pitch, before the deal is complete, and you realize an error such as the puck being in the wrong spot. Do those 2 blind actions count as substantial action? Or can we call a misdeal and correct the error?

--- End quote ---
I think in this case the player have acted in turn and created substantial actions (UTG is first to act once he has two cards and then called rule 38), therefore rule 34D  applies (Once substantial action occurs a misdeal cannot be declared; the hand must proceed)...

Motobaka72:
Sorry to highjack your thread but this is something that came to mind while reading it.

Ok so let´s say UTG declares all in and +1 says he pays.  Both actions are in turn and substantial action is complete.  Then dealer misdeals, something like turning two cards while pitching.  What then?

I went ahead and ask two floor men at my casino.  Both concluded that it is a situation they don’t want to be in and don’t know what to do.

Misdeal can’t be declared because there is substantial action, but you still need to give to players a new card because of the two exposed ones.  So, do u give the one that was going to be burned to the first exposed card and then shuffle to exchange the second exposed card with a new one?

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