Author Topic: Dealing Card " flashed "  (Read 6309 times)

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2016, 01:06:13 PM »
To all,

 The original question was not about an exposed card...it was flashed. If it were obviously seen then of course all players should get to see the card. My answer applies when a single player thinks he caught a glimpse of a flashed card. "Hey dealer, I just saw Chet's card...it's the Jack of clubs." The dealer then turns over the card in question, only to discover it is a King of clubs. Not a problem, it will be replaced by what would be the burn card. Oh, I forgot to tell you, that King of clubs gave Chet pocket Kings! "Sorry, Chet..." ::) :D

chet

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2016, 02:09:04 PM »
Hey nick!!!

Pocket Kings SUCK so there

 :D :D :D

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2016, 03:05:37 PM »
That's funny...I don't like them either! ;D

Terence Bertault

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2016, 03:47:55 AM »
Hi guys,

At first I just want to apologize again for my english ... I miss some vocabulary ....

1/ So in my first post, the card is exposed by the dealer in dealing to the UTG player ... First or second private cards is not important because the rule is the same ...

For me, I know that we have to change it by the flop burned card ... the exposed card become the flop burned card ...
I look in the TDA's 2013 rules and I was wrong it's not in ...
I think I ve learnt that in RROP in a old french version ...
It's obvious that for me TDA 2015 #34 rules by " two cards at the button " is refering to this point !

A long time ago in french casino and just for a bit of culture, we were taking the third card under the deck to replace the player card ... With this old rule, we didn't put the flop burned card in the game ...

2/ A card flashed by a player who clearly announced it
It's a big discussion guys and of course there can be a lot of point of view ...

I m agree with Nick that at 90% the player annoucing it is wrong ... from my experience ...
Obvious we can't check the player's card to look if he's right or wrong in his announcement ... because it's giving info to all players ... But leaving this card to a player can be a big disavantage for him ...

As I say before, I don t think there's a perfect rulling for this ... In all cases, there's will be avantage and disavantage in the game or for players ...

In the doubt for me, we ve got to change it to the player ...

3/ TDA's 2017 rules
I don't understand guys that if TDA wants to be a leader in poker rules; you don't written all the rules and all the rulling of litigations ... in English TDA's rules is 9 pages ... It's quite ridiculous don't you think for a game like poker ...

The rule for prematured turn card have to change in my opinion, you can't change the end of the deck my friends ... but it's not the subject of this thread ... :)

Make us a bible of 30 or 50 pages with all in it ! Work hard guys in 2017, we need it !
I think of new TDs in our industry ... and sometimes players have to read rules to understand and accept a rulling.

By the way, thanks to all of you guys for participating to this thread.

Friendly regards.



GreggPath

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2016, 04:50:44 AM »
Make us a bible of 30 or 50 pages with all in it ! Work hard guys in 2017, we need it !
I think of new TDs in our industry ... and sometimes players have to read rules to understand and accept a rulling.

I was actually thinking the same thing last night. Why do we have to make the rulebook as concise as possible? I think the rulebook should be extensive as possible! Cover every possible scenario. If a rule is written down, it's less likely that the rule will be applied incorrectly.

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 08:48:15 AM »
I'll agree with less rules, but much, much lengthier explanations. Hundreds of pages with every possible scenario. Okay, sharpen your pencils!

Brian Vickers

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2016, 06:53:18 AM »
My 2 cents:

If there is ANY doubt whether any player saw a flashed card on the initial deal to any position, I will pull the card back, show it to the entire table, replace it in order and make it the burn card.

Chet

I agree 100% and don't see why this isn't the common way of thinking.  I was playing last Saturday night, sitting in seat 1 and the card dealt to me landed at a bad angle and flipped up and down quickly.  The dealer tried to discretely ask me if I thought it flashed. I said "do you think it flashed?" she said "it might have but I don't know if anyone saw it." To which I responded, "If you think it may have flashed then you need to treat it as if it definitely did flash."  She replaced it but then for some reason felt the need to add in "I really don't think it flashed."

I have no idea if it flashed or not, I was looking at my phone (don't judge me to harshly for that, just being honest).  But the dealer was the one that suggested it may have been flashed so clearly there had to be a pretty decent possibility that it had.  Whether anyone saw the flashed card is, in my opinion, irrelevant.

Terence Bertault

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2016, 12:18:31 PM »
Just a good dealer I think with a great sense of professionnalism.

About puting more rules / all the rules and rullings, I'm happy to see that you are in favor of that.

Just want to hear in 2017/2018 :
" woww TDA has changed, they have worked hard, it's now the best and clear rules of poker "

I will obvious help by giving you my opinion on each rules.
You have well undertand that I can't write with my poor english ... be sure I will be your french translator for this !

Easy to make a short form to post-up in our rooms, a mid-form for basic rules and a long form with all in it.

BillM16

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2016, 04:31:50 PM »
My 2 cents:

If there is ANY doubt whether any player saw a flashed card on the initial deal to any position, I will pull the card back, show it to the entire table, replace it in order and make it the burn card.

Chet

I agree 100% and don't see why this isn't the common way of thinking. ... Whether anyone saw the flashed card is, in my opinion, irrelevant.

I also agree 100%.

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 08:43:40 PM »
To Bill, and Chet, and Brian:

 How are you aware of the flashed card? Does the dealer call you over to the table? Or does the argument that ensues at the table draw you there? In a perfect world, you'd be watching the dealers every move and then you could make a sound decision as to whether the card were flashed or not. However, realistically, that's not what happens. So you go to a table where the dealer insists he did not flash a card, and a player insists he did. Do you ask him (the player) what the card was? Or do you just turn it over without further questioning? I'm curious and I'd really like to know.

 

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2016, 07:32:34 AM »
Bill;

 Nice thorough answer to Reply #24  ???

BillM16

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2016, 07:53:11 AM »
A properly trained dealer should replace a card being dealt when any part of the face was possibly exposed. There is no need to call the floor.  See rule #34 for exceptions regarding misdeals.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 08:03:23 AM by BillM16 »

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2016, 08:56:06 AM »
Rule #34 has absolutely nothing to do with this post, or the original question.

GreggPath

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2016, 10:05:32 AM »
Bill;

 Nice thorough answer to Reply #24  ???

Really Nick? Can't someone agree without having to explain themselves. It seems like everytime someone disagrees with what you are saying, you take it as a personal attack. Everyone has a right to their opinion. The fact that most people disagree with many of your suggestions only says that you are in the minority, not that they have anything against you.

A properly trained dealer should replace a card being dealt when any part of the face was possibly exposed. There is no need to call the floor.  See rule #34 for exceptions regarding misdeals.

I agree with you, Bill. Sure, if a player objects to the ruling and won't accept the dealer's explanation, then the floor should be called over and should agree with the dealer.

Rule #34 has absolutely nothing to do with this post, or the original question.

As for this one, Rule 34 absolutely has something to do with what we're talking about. Looks at subsection A-6.  We are talking about exposed (or flashed) cards. That rule deals explicitly with that subject.

In my mind, it all comes down to fairness. One player possibly seeing a piece of a card has information that the rest of the table does not have, regardless of how little information they have (black vs red). The only way to be fair to everyone is to show the card to the whole table and replace it with the burn card. I've never heard about a player lying about seeing a card (that is, saying they saw it even though they didn't... obviously the reverse probably happens more often, but that's comes back around to the need for this rule). If you have to ask, "Did anyone see any bit of that card?", then you should be replacing the card anyways.

Nick C

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Re: Dealing Card " flashed "
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2016, 11:48:22 AM »
Really Gregg?

 Terence asks a question. I wait one full day before I reply. I give him the answer he's looking for, and then you chime in. My recent reply was directed at Bill, and I'm sure he can speak for himself. If you have a problem with my replies, that's fine. I recently sent you two personal messages. The last one went unanswered. It's just another ruling we don't agree on.

 Sorry every comment I make bothers you, and too bad you seem to take them personally. :o
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 12:21:16 PM by Nick C »