Author Topic: Unusual situation: Putting out new chips on top of prior chips adequate to call  (Read 13750 times)

BillM16

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BillM16,

 Bets should never be pulled in by the dealer, according to the TDA. I described the only time that the practice might be helpful. I obviously am not doing a good job of separating the two different situations. I thought that "pulling in" bets was for isolating a raise (only). Not pulling in bets as the bets are made, :- ??? Dealers should never do that, never!

I'm confused again, sorry. ::)

Nick, I think your confusion might be that you believe someone is suggesting that dealers should do this.  I don't see anyone making that suggestion.  From where are you getting this idea?

Nick C

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Bill,
 The confusion comes from numerous posts, some stating a single small denomination chip signifies a full bet or raise, (not requiring 50%).

 Another existing rule that adds to my confusion is from the 2013 Recommended Procedures Version 1.0, Released Aug. 9, 2013:
 RP-2. Bringing in Bets is Discouraged...Routinely bringing in chips as betting and raising proceeds around the table is poor dealing practice....poor dealing practice??? what dealer does that? The reduction in bet stacks may influence the action, create confusion (not as much as this rule) & increase the risk of error. Yeah, like who made the initial bet? ::) The TDA recommends that the dealers do not touch a players bet unless a count is needed. Does that mean; the dealer can't break the bet down to a readable amount unless it is requested? Only the player currently facing action may ask the dealer to bring in chips. Does that refer to the player considering a call? If so, why would he ask the dealer to bring in chips?

So there you have it...perhaps I'm running one confusing rule into another but I just don't get it ???

Brian Vickers

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Back to original question:  Player was facing a bet of 0, he put in additional chips. In this case I believe he should be held to the 50% raise rule.  It would be not end up being a raise because he did not put in at least 50% of the minimum raise.  Had he put 400 on top of his 2000 I believe he should have to complete his raise to 3200.  This player did not have to put in any more chips for any reason to continue with the hand, he put in additional chips anyway so his bets are governed by 50% raise rule and not multiple overchip rule.

In another instance where a player IS facing a raise on top of his previously wagered chips, I believe his previously wagered chips should be left in front of him but should be also considered to be already part of the pot and not factored into what is in front of him.  When a player does need to put in additional chips to continue with the hand, bets should then be examined to see if it fits the multiple overchip rule.
Example: Blinds are 400-800.  Player A calls 800 with a single 1000 chip.  Player B raises to 1600.  Action folds to Player A and he throws out a single 5000 chip without comment.  He has 6000 in chips sitting out there but unless he gives some sort of verbal or physical indication of a raise I am ruling this a call.  My reason is that Player A is facing a bet of 800 only and has place in one chip to cover what he owes.  He is not facing the full 1600  bet where throwing out two chips  at once (one 1000 and one 5000) would be a raise; instead he is required to put in additional chips to continue with the hand and even though he has thrown out a very large denomination of chip for the second chip he has failed to clarify his action and we are left with a position where we must rule the lesser applicable amount (a call in this case).  By considering his original 800 to be part of the pot, he is only facing 800 and the overchip rule applies.  Had Player A given some indication of a raise, which to me is as simple as pushing both chips forward when placing the 5k chip, then I would consider it a raise, but outside of some given certainty we have to rule call here in this example.

Nick C

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Brian,

 You lost me again. I went back to the original post and see nothing of what you're talking about. What bet of zero! ::) There is no such thing. Players adding chips to any prior wager on the same betting round MUST clarify they're intent.