PLO Opening Bet

[WSOPMcGee]

Here's another one that has gotten considerable attention on the WSOP FB page.

Question was - Blinds are 3,000 and 6,000. The BB does not have a full bet and only has 3,000 in chips to post. What is the maximum opening bet?

I don't remember debating this in this forum. But I'm ready and armed

[K-Lo]

Why do I feel a trap?

My vote is for 18K.

[WSOPMcGee]

Why do I feel a trap?

Good instincts!

My vote is for 18K.

There's 1 for the 18k camp. 

[WSOPMcGee]

Why do I feel a trap?

What I should have said is.... Good Read

[Nick C]

I'm not sure but I'll say 12K

[Spence]

We play all blinds as full bets so...  18k

[K-Lo]

There's 1 for the 18k camp. 

Should I take that to mean there's also a strong 21K camp?

[WSOPMcGee]

There's 1 for the 18k camp. 

Should I take that to mean there's also a strong 21K camp?

Yes. Very strong 

and also a 12k camp 

If I was doing an actual poll.... I'd guesstimate the current camps are broken down as:

21k 60%
18k 38%
12k 2%

[Spence]

I'm confused as to why anyone would have it as 21k...  There's no dead money we're counting.  If the blinds are counted as full bets then essentially the breakdown is...
SB 3k (counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
BB 3k (also counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
UTG - 6+6+6=18k wait... that's not right.

I'd like to change my answer to 24k.  Let me explain because I'm not sure about what the "maximum opening bet" means.
UTG is faced with calling 6k or raising.  When raising in Pot limit you add your call amount then raise everything that is on the table.  Technically the raise amount would be 18k(counting all blinds as full bets) but UTG+1 would face a bet of 24k.
So 24k?  What does "maximum opening bet" mean?  If I was UTG and called "pot" I would be putting 24k in.
That's my answer.

[WSOPMcGee]

I'm confused as to why anyone would have it as 21k...  There's no dead money we're counting.  If the blinds are counted as full bets then essentially the breakdown is...
SB 3k (counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
BB 3k (also counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
UTG - 6+6+6=18k wait... that's not right.

I'd like to change my answer to 24k.  Let me explain because I'm not sure about what the "maximum opening bet" means.

Spence I used the phrase opening bet for that exact reason. To make people think. If I said, "maximum opening raise", which essentially means the same thing, would not make you think.
Also, I used the words "opening bet" because that's what it is, it's the first bet. The BB does not count as a bet as it's a forced bet.

So what does it mean, "Maximum Opening Bet"? It means, what is the maximum range I can bet if I'm first to act (UTG)?

UTG is faced with calling 6k or raising.  When raising in Pot limit you add your call amount then raise everything that is on the table.  Technically the raise amount would be 18k(counting all blinds as full bets) but UTG+1 would face a bet of 24k.
So 24k?  What does "maximum opening bet" mean?  If I was UTG and called "pot" I would be putting 24k in.
That's my answer.

This is correct if it were a cash game and the game was not being played in the UK. I'd include Ireland too but of late they are being more flexible to adopting the Americanized style of cash game Pot Limit.

You got to your answer in a round about way... But you got there

This is still tournament poker. It's just a little deceptive with the Non-TDA Tournament heading on the marquee.

I'm curious to know though, what are 'Full Bet Rules'? Is that what you just call the rounding of bets to the highest blind posted? Meaning in the example above, you're just rounding all blinds to 6,000?

[Nick C]

Does every tournament count the SB as a full BB? I based my low bet on the actual pot. The initial raise (max) pre-flop is 7XSB or 4XBB if the SB is considered to have matched the BB. I just don't know how you would handle this. If the Sb and the short all-in BB are both counted as full bets then I'll agree with Spence's 24K.

 So what's the answer?

[Brian Vickers]

Tournaments are generally regarded as "true pot limit" with no rounding.  The SB in a tournament is treated as the SB amount and not rounded to the size of the BB.

My instinct says put in the 6000, leaving you with your 6000 + 3000 SB + 3000 BB = 12000 in pot that you can raise on top of your 6000 match so total bet of 18000.

My feeling is that everything else is true pot amount, so a smaller BB should be treated exactly as the amount posted not the amount it should have been.

If BB had posted 6000, it would be 21000 for pot amount, so it's either gonna be 18k or 21k, no other answer makes sense.  24k is wrong per tournament pot limit rules regardless if BB is full bet or not.

[Nick C]

Brian,

 What about SB 3000 + BB 3000 = 12000 which is my original answer and is the bet amount allowed.

[Brian Vickers]

Nick:
SB 3000 + BB 3000 + you have to put in your call amount of 6000, creating a 12000 pot, yes, so 12000 is the raise amount on top of your 6000 equaling 18000 total. 

[Nick C]

Brian,

 Take a look at all of my posts, that's exactly what I said. The question was: "What is the maximum opening bet?" My answer: 12000 total pot size 18000.