Author Topic: Showdown muck turned up  (Read 5218 times)

Guillaume Gleize

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Showdown muck turned up
« on: October 31, 2014, 06:45:34 AM »
Hello

Here is the case:

After many streets of aggressive bets and raises, two players are left at the river:

Board is: Kh 5s As 7c 8d

Player A check
Player B check

Player A shows 5d 5c for trips
Player B muck throwing his cards faces down toward the middle ...
... The cards are clearly identifiable and both players agree for this ending but ...
... Another player (who folded earlier) crack and TURNS THE MUCKED HAND OF B FACES UP !
... Witch is: 6s 9s for a STRAIGHT that player B didn't noticed !!

... FLOOR!

I know my decision may shock some of you but our home rule about the showdown mucked cards turned faces up is the following:

1) The cards are alive if turned up by:
a - The actual owner of the hand
b - The "air" (while throwing them on the middle)
c - The opponent who were actually winning

2) The cards are dead if turned up by:
a - The dealer with no official reason (Rolland de Wolf case)
b - Any opponent who were loosing or previously fold
c - Any other people (spectator etc.) (Yes this allready happened lol)

So because of it was a 2)b case ... I declared the hand DEAD!

Your opinion?

TY




« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:56:22 PM by Guillaume Gleize »

Nick C

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Re: Showdown muck turned up
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 09:30:40 AM »
Hello Guillaume,
 Great question and I actually like your rule...but not for tournament poker. I have been lobbying for a rule that would prevent any player (in for all bets) from mucking his hand. This is the only way to guarantee that the pot goes to the rightful winner.

 What makes your situation interesting is the fact that a player, that folded earlier, was able to retrieve the discarded hand before the dealer mucked it! Current rules allow players to fold at the showdown (as long as no player is all-in ::)), so the dealer should have instantly mucked the hand which would have prevented the messy situation that occurred.

 Even though I like your house rules for the situation you explained, as long as the discarded hand did not "touch" the muck, and the cards were clearly identifiable, the best hand should get the pot. That's how I see it.

Tristan

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Re: Showdown muck turned up
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 09:15:19 PM »
I agree with your decision GG.  The players were not all-in so the cards did not have to be shown.  Player B clearly mucked and the other player has no right to flip that hand.  Penalize the player who flipped the hand, but hand remains dead.
Tristan
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Guillaume Gleize

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Re: Showdown muck turned up
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 03:19:26 AM »
TY guys for support and answers!

Thank to those tricky situations and dealers errors: They give me a permanent job and feed my familly ...  :D

GG

Nick C

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Re: Showdown muck turned up
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 06:44:01 AM »
Guillaume,

 Great answer...and because of so many poor dealers and brain-dead players, you'll be working for a long, long time!  :D