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OOT action when heads up at start of betting round

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Nick C:
Thomas, I'm sure I'm missing something because I'm having a tough time following your example. You say the bring-in is 50 and the player brings it in for 200? How can the mext player raise 100 more? Like I said, I'm not understanding your scenario at all...sorry.

WSOPMcGee:

--- Quote from: Nick C on April 18, 2015, 06:44:19 AM ---Thomas, I'm sure I'm missing something because I'm having a tough time following your example. You say the bring-in is 50 and the player brings it in for 200? How can the mext player raise 100 more? Like I said, I'm not understanding your scenario at all...sorry.


--- End quote ---
Ok I'll see if I can be more detailed.

Game is 7 card Stud. Limits are 100-200 with a 50 bring-in.

Player in Seat 2 is the Bring-in and mistakes 2 black chips for 2 green chips. He puts in 200.
Dealer says complete. *****Side note - This is another good dealer and he could have saved this headache by correcting the bet immediately. He did verbalize it to the table while continuing the action. But these "PROs" are so distracted by miscellaneous electronic devices that they don't pay attention to what dealers say anymore and just visually observe the action and act on impulse in the early stages of a tournament.*****

Fold around to player in Seat 7.
Player sees 2 blacks chips as the bet. He puts in 200 to call.
Dealer says Raise. Seat 1 folds.
Player in Seat 2 says to the dealer, "He raised?" Dealer says "Yes". Seat 2 says then I raise and put in 300.
Player in Seat 7 says "Wait, I didn't raise. I just called. He put out 200 and I put out 200, I call."

Floor is called.

Keep in mind this in not a "scenario" this is a real hand in the 10k Stud event.

There are 3 possible rulings here and none of them are wrong. But each ruling is definitely better than another ruling.

You're the floor Nick. Go.

Nick C:
Sorry Thomas, I just can't even begin to wrap my brain around this scenario. I'll have to come back to this one when I can think straight.

I'm back. First of all: with the bring-in 50 the most he could have bet was 100, not 200. Therefore the next player was not allowed to call 200. Then the next player raises to 300? How in the hell did any of this happen?

 I realize that substantial action has occurred but if I were called to make a decision, I would have backed up to the bring-in, correct his bet by allowing him to bring it in for 100...then I would return 100 to the player who thought he was calling the bring-in...and then I would have made the raiser take back 100 and make his raise the only legal size it could be...200. That's my call and I'm sticking to it and I'm going to have a nice conversation with your "good dealer." :-\

Hey, that's a little high on the bring-in for 100/200...is it not?

WSOPMcGee:

--- Quote from: Nick C on April 18, 2015, 03:48:51 PM ---I'm back. First of all: with the bring-in 50 the most he could have bet was 100, not 200.
--- End quote ---
True. But that's not what happened.

--- Quote ---Therefore the next player was not allowed to call 200.
--- End quote ---
Again true, but that's not what happened.

--- Quote ---Then the next player raises to 300? How in the hell did any of this happen?
--- End quote ---
This did not happen. Read it again. The Player in Seat 2 who brought it in for $200 raised to $300.


--- Quote ---I realize that substantial action has occurred
--- End quote ---
Correct.

--- Quote --- but if I were called to make a decision, I would have backed up to the bring-in
--- End quote ---
correct his bet by allowing him to bring it in for 100...then I would return 100 to the player who thought he was calling the bring-in...and then I would have made the raiser take back 100 and make his raise the only legal size it could be...200. That's my call and I'm sticking to it and I'm going to have a nice conversation with your "good dealer." :-\
[/quote]
Substantial action trumps everything. It is too late to correct the bets. There were 4 folds in between and a call, in addition to another fold behind the caller.

--- Quote ---Hey, that's a little high on the bring-in for 100/200...is it not?

--- End quote ---
The limit was 25 ante, 50 bring-in, 100/200 limit. With a 30,000 starting stack, no that's not too high.

Nick C:
Thomas: Once long ago I suggested using names for players when describing these scenarios. I'm getting dizzy with "Player #1 and Player #6, and then we use Player A, and Player D." Or "The Button raised the UTG after he was called by the Cutoff" ::)

 I'll read your post again, (for the tenth time), and see if I can sort it out. :-\

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