Author Topic: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?  (Read 13320 times)

Nick C

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Re: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2014, 01:38:37 PM »
Tristan,

 If Player A bets the same amount as Player B (agrees with the OOT), are you saying the out of turn can still retract his bet? If this is correct, then the only way to assure the OOT stays is if Player A checks?

 Wow, if this is correct, it's even worse than I thought it was. :o

 We need to do everything in our power to prevent out of turn, and I don't think we are.

Tristan

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Re: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2014, 02:12:03 PM »
If Player A bets the same amount as Player B (agrees with the OOT), are you saying the out of turn can still retract his bet? If this is correct, then the only way to assure the OOT stays is if Player A checks?

That is correct.  I wouldn't be so hasty to change that though.  I don't think you are thinking of the negative consequences to Player A.  Keep in mind that Player A does not always want Player B in the hand!  The only way Player A can get B to fold is by betting, correct?  Yet, with your proposed change, Player A would have to raise in order to have a chance for Player B to fold. 

By trying to penalize Player B, you could be penalizing Player A...but there is no way for you to know.  In limit poker especially, the more of Player B's money that you force to stay in the pot, the less likely Player B is to fold...which could be positive or negative for Player A.

Better, in my opinion, to give hand/orbit penalties if you feel there needs to be more of a penalty for Player B.
Tristan
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Nick C

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Re: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2014, 06:01:04 PM »
Tristan,

 Can you recognize the difference between action head to head, as opposed to intervening players being skipped by the out of turn action?

 My confusion comes from; "changing the action" to the out of turn? How can we change a bet, or action to the wrong bettor, that should never be allowed?

 I can see where this could go on forever, so for now, I'll scratch my head...and move on.

Thanks for the back and forth. I always enjoy our discussions. :)

Nick C

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Re: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2014, 08:41:51 AM »
To all:

 After the recent discussions with Tristan and Mike, I took a closer look at our TDA rule for Action Out of Turn: I have highlighted my suggestion for clarification.

38: Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: Action out of turn is subject to penalty and is binding if the action to the OOT player has not changed. A check, call or fold (from any skipped player) does not change the OOT action. If action changes, the OOT bet is not binding and is returned to the OOT player who has all options including: calling, raising, or folding. An OOT fold is binding.

K-Lo

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Re: Action Out of Turn: Is this Unfair Advantage?
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2014, 09:33:15 AM »
Better, in my opinion, to give hand/orbit penalties if you feel there needs to be more of a penalty for Player B.

I also think this is the best approach and most practical to implement. If B bets XX,000 and the folds to a 200 bet, it's obvious he's saved at least his big bet (and has potentially affected the normal course of events in the hand) -- so in my mind, he deserves, a significant penalty, i.e. proportionate to the amount that he's saved.