POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: Luca P. on July 08, 2013, 03:24:26 PM

Title: Releasing chips one by one
Post by: Luca P. on July 08, 2013, 03:24:26 PM
Hello guys,
how would you rule the following situation:

player A checks, player B takes a stack of chips (of different denomination) and with one motion (from his stack to the front of him) releases these chips one by one (like a raindrop) in front of him, leaving no chips in his hand (releasing all the chips he grabbed)

What would you do?
Raise or call?
Title: Re: Releasing chips one by one
Post by: Tristan on July 08, 2013, 04:16:28 PM
To me it would depend on if they paused and looked for reactions.  If they were doing it non-stop, not pausing in between, and not looking around for reactions I would let it stand.  I would caution the player that actions like that risk them being at the mercy of the tournament director.

If they were pausing significantly or looking for reactions I would hold them to the amount that they put out prior to the first pause. 
Title: Re: Releasing chips one by one
Post by: MikeB on July 09, 2013, 03:59:49 PM
Luca: For me the key is "one motion" (2011 TDA Rules # 36)... are those chips pouring out of his hand non-stop or "dribbling" one-sey, two-sey. If you catch me in a good mood I'll tolerate the first, but the second not a chance ever. Slightest hesitancy and the bet is over, and if I'm not in a good mood I'll rule the first a min-bet / raise also, I just don't like that kind of betting.

It used to be more common to see a player "shake" his chips into the pot, as long as the shaking continued we tolerated the continuous bet... I think alot of TDs are getting away from that now and just insisting on "one motion", and that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned.

I will channel the late Al Wise here "if it looks like a string bet, it is a string bet", ultimately that's what you have to go with. If you rule other than what the player intended, i.e. you stopped the bet when the player intended to put more out, it's his fault, not yours. "It's players responsibility to make his intentions clear" (this language will now be in Rule 2 of the TDA Rules, btw).

Of course this is all different if the table uses a betting line or forward motion, in which case all the chips in the player's hand are probably going to be ruled bet if he extends his hand forward.

Thanks alot for the great question.
Title: Re: Releasing chips one by one
Post by: Nick C on July 09, 2013, 07:43:45 PM
 I have to say Mike is right because it depends on whether there is a betting line or not, or whether the casino you happen to be playing at has a chip release rule, and on and on. There are so many problems created from unclear bets and raises. As rulemakers, can't we just insist on verbal clarification? I know when I'm dealing, I constantly stop the action beyond the bettor until I know exactly what the bettor is doing. It might not be textbook but...I need to know what's going on. If it's unclear to me, how can I expect other players to be able to follow the action? This is why I'm not in favor of accepted action...just thought I'd slip that in. ;D

 When you call the floor over to the table, what do you say? Some players just keep testing us...we really need to stop them. The challenges we face when playing the great game of poker should be based on knowing your opponents, reading your opponents, and hopefully out playing your opponents. It shouldn't be clouded by deceptive practices, like dribbling chips into the pot hoping to get a reaction from the next player.

 If I were dealing at that table, I would have said; "hold it! Stop!" while (simultaneously) preventing the next player from doing anything until we get the bet straightened out. Then I'd call the floor and let the TD make the call.

 If that's not unclear, I don't know the meaning of the word.
Title: Re: Releasing chips one by one
Post by: Stuart Murray on July 27, 2013, 05:13:24 PM
Everything above agreed with, it would depend on wether forward motion or chip release is employed by the house and further if there is a betting line and what that betting line means, for me the intent was sufficient to let it go with a little education on betting, I employ release but do word that forward motion may be binding if a player acts on it before release is complete.