GENERAL DISCUSSION BOARDS => General discussion of poker industry topics => Topic started by: bunner on November 20, 2012, 03:00:40 PM

Title: is my hand dead?
Post by: bunner on November 20, 2012, 03:00:40 PM
playing holdem flop is 5d 6d Qc, turn 7h and river K.h

my hand is 89 off and i tell the other player if you havent got a flush (diamonds) youre better off folding because i have you beat hands down but if you have a flush, by all means call and the pot is yours, (laughter from other players) one onlooker saying im bluffing and i reply no i have 8/9 for the 2nd nuts and if this man has no flush im taking all his chips. he doesnt believe me and thinks about calling.. i tell him again if you call ill turn over 8/9 and youl be sorry, but dont say i didnt warn you..

he calls... tabling 2 pair, i table my straight and dealer tells me my hand is dead for announcing my cards??

is this correct?

all action was in heads up play, all other players folded pre flop
Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: Nick C on November 20, 2012, 03:56:10 PM

 Welcome to the forum.

 I would say the hand can not be killed in that situation. If it is a tournament, you could give penalties and warnings but the hand is still live. Although it is unethical, the hand is also live in a cash game.
Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: chet on November 20, 2012, 08:06:39 PM
bunner:  First of all you must be playing with a real bunch of dunderheads, since there is no possible flush with the board you described (2 diamonds, 1 club and 2 hearts).  Whether your hand is dead depends upon whether the location you are playing a tournament in adheres to the current TDA Rules.  If so, your hand is not dead, but you should be assessed a significant penalty.

If you are playing a cash game, then you need to look at the House Rules for the location you are playing in.  In general, the current trend is not to declare hands involved in a controversy "dead", but to assess penalties that start with the next hand.  However, as I said, you need to look at the House Rules, they frequently differ from "current trends".

Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: Nick C on November 20, 2012, 09:04:03 PM
Hey Chet...good one ::)

 Taking another look...if there were house rules that would not allow discussing your holding, don't you think the dealer should have given the player a warning before things got that far?

Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: Stuart Murray on November 21, 2012, 09:34:51 AM
I was the dealer in the game!

What's not mentioned is it is indeed a Dealers Choice cash game, hand was NLHE, and we have a zero disclosure rule for cash game poker, hands are dead when intentionally exposed, or declared verbally.  Thinking about the situation, I should of stopped the action when Bunner announced his hand, and instructed him if he did indeed have 89 he should now muck his hand in order to reclaim the 7 river bet, as there was sufficient time between the river bet and the other player calling to do this, with the remainder of the pot going to the other player, in that respect, I will be quite happy to return your 7 river bet on this occasion, as a token gesture therefore it shall be free entry to your next 8 Tournament ;-)

With regards to the Diamonds, I believe the Turn was a 7d, not 7h, making a three card diamond board.

EDIT: I cannot for the life of me remember an onlooker discussing the hand, if I had caught it I would of been down on them also.  We started cash games with players allowed to show others their hands, but it was far too open to abuse, so we needed a serious crackdown, by not allowing intentional exposure, which has been the case for (almost) a year.

Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: Tristan on November 21, 2012, 10:51:29 AM
Lol'ing at the fact that someone came to the TDA forum to try to bust Stuart!  :o  :P

Cash game is different than tournaments.  Many houses have different house rules.  I personally don't mind people talking while heads up in a cash game, but I wouldn't do it and I would definitely not do it in an establishment that doesn't allow it!!

one onlooker saying im bluffing

I would, however, have a problem with the player chiming in offering their opinion!
Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: bunner on November 21, 2012, 11:15:29 AM
lol not trying to bust anyone. just after a 3rd opinion from an outsider so im clear about consequences of any actions in future cash games
Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: chet on November 21, 2012, 01:04:34 PM

As I said in my original post,  You need to know what the House Rules are!!  If you don't know what the "local" rules are and you take some action that breaks a rule, the entire responsibility for your action is on you.  The other players are not responsible, the dealer is not responsible and the House is not responsible.  At least that is how I see it. 

Consider this circumstance a lesson, and, it appears, a very cheap one at that.  It could have cost you considerably more had the pot been larger and 2-3 players go all in, etc.

Nick:  Maybe you need to volunteer to head over to Stuart's House and conduct a refresher course on dealing !!   :) :) :)

Title: Re: is my hand dead?
Post by: bunner on November 21, 2012, 08:38:58 PM
i have not said any other persons apart from myself are responsible, i take full responsibility for my actoins. going a little off topic chet , the post is regarding a dealers ruling and a dead or live hand which i have admitted announcing. no buck was passed and my dealing is up to date but thanks for the tip.

will possibly ask the "local" TD to put up the "local" house rules for all other players to be refreshed and up to date  ::)