PokerTDA
POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: MikeB on July 31, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
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Please visit the following link for the 2011 Poker TDA Rules, Version 2.0:
http://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/
A red-line version showing additions and changes from 2009 Rules Version 2.0 to 2011 Rules Version 1.0 is also available on that page.
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Many thanks to the board for taking the time and effort for this version.
Just a couple of queries if I may;
Rule 36: I may be wrong, but believe that at the summit when this was discussed you agreed that if someone bet out turn, that action MAY stand. I was very pleased to hear this as sometimes when there is a substantial pot an out of turn bettor tries nicking the pot and position. I will not disqualify someone for betting out of turn, but I have had situations where the player will risk a penalty if they are to gain more chips than will be forfeited by the penalty.
Rule 46: non standard folds, if a player folds in turn when facing a check they may be penalised? Why?
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Great job!!!
If I were grading the TDA, based on 55 rules, I would give a 95%. Very high and quite an accomplishment. I have 3 rules that I would still like to discuss. ;D IMO, 3 rules that might need a little tweaking (out of 55) can be attributed to some long hours, and compromise, from all the members of the board. I think that the 2011 TDA Rules will be used by a record number of cardrooms, worldwide. New rules, and the addition of Mike Bishop to the board of directors, will keep the TDA at the top of the list of respected rulemakers for the betterment of poker. Nice work!
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Good work from everyone involved! It is really good also to see Substantial Action developed and Asking to see a hand created into a workable rule.
All changes are now been incorporated into our own rules.
Regards
Stuart
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Many thanks to the board for taking the time and effort for this version.
Just a couple of queries if I may;
Rule 46: non standard folds, if a player folds in turn when facing a check they may be penalised? Why?
Not sure I understand your first question but the one about rule 46.... by folding when facing a check, you are not protecting the other players in the pot (specifically the bettor) since now he may be called in a spot where before he may not. Same thing with back raises... a player who may have bet from the back on a ck ck situation now can ck behind not worrying about a CR in between. There are many, many scenarios. Bottom line, folding to a check makes the play of the hand change and gives information (be it good or bad for their purposes) to the others that they shouldn't be privvy to. It also "acts like" acting out of turn and therefore needs consequences. Players will do it when dashing to the restroom, trying to answer or make a call, etc.... these are all things we are trying to end. Hope this makes sense. It's for the protection of the players IN the hand....
Jan Fisher
BOD TDA
Cardplayercruises.com
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KevMath Tweeted Matt that the new rules should be identified with an "*" (Asterisk) and I agree with Matt that this is a great idea. I would take it one step further and identify new rules with a single asterisk and modified rules with a double asterisk.
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Yes, this, too, is in the works...
Jan
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Thanks Jan for your response, regarding rule 46, isnt this part of the game though? As long as collusion is not suspected isn't this similar to the checking down process without stating anything.
I.e bubble time, 3 players left 2 with decent chip stacks and a small stack. Small stack last too act, 1st player with 72 off folds leaving player 2 to have a pop at the short stack without fear of being check raised etc. I have used this play myself so very concerned that this play may be seen as unethical. even on the Internet this is possible as many sites ask for confirmation you want to fold when facing a check.
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It is not allowed under TDA guidelines.... whether used "as a shot" which you've just confirmed or thru ignorance. Your options for each action are in response to the action you are facing. Folding is not an option if you are not facing aggressive action. Not sure this is what you wanted to hear but it's the way we've put the rules together for the protection of everyone (or so we feel).
Jan
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KevMath Tweeted Matt that the new rules should be identified with an "*" (Asterisk) and I agree with Matt that this is a great idea. I would take it one step further and identify new rules with a single asterisk and modified rules with a double asterisk.
There is a version with the changes and additions in red posted at:
http://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/
and directly available at this link:
http://www.pokertda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Poker_TDA_Rules_2011_Version_1.0_Handout_docx_redline_changes.pdf
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even on the Internet this is possible as many sites ask for confirmation you want to fold when facing a check.
Thanks for bringing that up Ricky... in live tournament play a player should not be asked for confirmation, the fold should be binding when it occurs. Classic example is the inattentive BB who folds by mistake on his option when there's no pre-flop raise to him... that's now clarified as binding in a protypical tournament. I presume the internet allows a player to re-consider because they might have hit the wrong button by mistake... Warning, penalty, etc. is at TDs discretion.
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Thanks to everyone for their hard work on the Rules. I wish I was there at the Summit to participate, but glad to be able to follow along on Twitter and the live feed, etc.
By the way, I thought there was discussion about introducing the "smelly player" rule? Or was that just a rumor / joke? :)
K
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Thanks for getting these rules ironed out and sent out so quickly. We plan to have them in play and enforced by Thursday. Thanks again for all of your dedication to this great game.
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K-Lo: I would think the "Smelly Player" situation would best be covered in your House Rules. I fail to see why a Smelly Player is a problem in a Tournament, but not in a cash game, hence the best place would be your House Rules.
Remember, TDA Tournament Rules are intended to SUPPORT not SUPPLANT your House Rules. Only in special cases, should a House Rule have to be replaced by a TDA Rule.
Chet
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Just an FYI:
For whatever reason rule #41 does not include Pot Limit. Only No Limit and Limit.
Perhaps an inclusion for Pot Limit if there is a Version 2. :)
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Does anyone have the links for the June TDA summit for both days? I saw a bit of the video but had to go elsewhere, thank you.
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Wolf,
Day 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_-Km9TnMLk
Day 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC56txeJd5M