POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Non-TDA Tournament and General Poker Rules Discussion => Topic started by: chet on July 20, 2011, 09:54:27 PM

Title: "Pass"
Post by: chet on July 20, 2011, 09:54:27 PM
I understand there was quite a discussion at the Summit about the word "Pass" and if I understood correctly, it was decided that "Pass" was not a valid substitute for the words "Check" or "Fold".

Looking at Kelli Mix' "Official Rules of Poker", she includes the following definition for the word "Pass" in the Glossary:


  To check if no bet has been made or to fold if a bet has been made."

Kelli had to get this from someplace, she didn't just grab it out of thin air, so I checked Robert's Rules of Poker, v11, which also includes the term and it says:

"PASS: (1) Decline to bet. In a pass-and-out game, this differs from a check, because a player who passes must fold. (2) Decline to call a wager, at which point you must discard your hand and have no further interest in the pot."

Based on the above, it seems to me that this word has a place in the vernacular.
Title: Re: "Pass"
Post by: Stuart Murray on July 21, 2011, 05:15:38 AM
I'm inclined to agree Chet, I tend to use it as a term for folding when not invested in the pot, whereas I tend to use 'fold' as a term when a player has invested in a pot by calling/raising.

Title: Re: "Pass"
Post by: Nick C on July 21, 2011, 05:23:19 AM
 I was sorry I mentioned "pass" at the summit. There was too much time wasted on whether the word should be accepted, along with, check, fold, call and raise. The worst part is, they got it wrong.
 There are too many books, to mention, on poker that clearly accept the word "pass."  It is a very common, and proper word for "draw poker," and "stud," and other "pass and out" games. There are even books that speak on "passing out of turn."

 The definitions are too lengthy to write, but some of the author's that use the word are world renouned. Ask Doyle Brunson, or Johnny Chan, or Jan Fisher if they think the word should be accepted.

 I also mentioned on another thread on this subject that, other words, and actions or gestures need to be included. Tapping the table when the action is checked to you, for example, and how about; "I'm in," or "I'm out."

 Chet, I know we are older than most members of the TDA but, surely others must have heard of "Jack's or Better?"
Title: Re: "Pass"
Post by: Brian Vickers on July 21, 2011, 08:05:58 AM
The other word we left off was "see" as in I'll "see" your bet...

It's all moot, however, since the purpose of the rule (in my mind) was to point out the importance of using non-ambiguous terms and phrases, not to define and list which terms are non-ambiguous.  The way the rule was written also included the term ",etc." which I believe you'll agree points out that this list is not all-inclusive and that there may be other non-ambigous words that are acceptable.  Whether we put "see" or "pass" on the list is irrelevant as we are all aware of the meaning of certain words per the situation. 
If you are watching a table and player in seat 5 is facing a bet and says "pass" I think all of us are going to rule that his hand was folded, and I don't think we need a line in the TDA rules to define that.  After all, we need these rules to all fit on one two-sided hand out  ;D
Title: Re: "Pass"
Post by: Nick C on July 21, 2011, 11:54:42 AM
 I know we want to keep the rules and procedures short but, I don't think "pass" takes up too much space.......  I still can't put those damn smilley faces after my responses.
Title: Re: "Pass"
Post by: JasperToo on July 21, 2011, 12:23:17 PM
So does this make 'pass' a homonym in this case??  wouldn't you have to print it twice in the rule?  Yep, takes up too much room! ;D ;D ;D ;D