PokerTDA
POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: Spence on April 15, 2011, 08:49:57 PM
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I noticed that the TDA does not use a "Line of commitment" in any of the rules. I know that the table layouts are house specific and have always used them in my rooms. I'm wondering if anyone else has a "line" that is enforced in the rooms they run. If so do you use it as a betting line or a muck line or anything of the sort? I'm trying to clean up some of the dirty rules that we have in our room and was looking for feedback.
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Spence,
I sent you an email but you might want to check this out, also.
http://pokertdaforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ak7fedg7ns16bghv3g5e5nght0&topic=16.0
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I've only worked in rooms that have had betting lines on the tables and the rule we used goes something like this: "Only chips released past the betting line will be considered part of one's bet, unless a verbal amount is stated prior to crossing the line. A player may cut out chips from a stack across the line and return to his remaining stack with the excess, but once a player makes motion back to his/her stack the chips left across the line are the entire bet. If a player crosses the betting line with chips he/she may no longer check or fold without putting chips into the pot, and is now held to at least the minimum bet or call."
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Jack McClelland is the Tournament Director of the Bellagio in Las Vegas.
Here is his explanation of how a betting line works:
http://www.cardplayer.com/cptv/channels/13-other-poker-videos/poker-videos/3922-ask-jack-betting-lines
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DCJ001,
I understand that this is how Jack does it but, you'd better be careful if you are playing in a casino other than the Ballagio. There are many rooms that will commit you to all of the chips in your hand on a forward motion beyond the betting line. Jack is a well traveled and respected poker legend. I remember dealing to him thirty years ago at the Treasury Casino. He was a very good player. The main game was seven card stud. Believe it or not, there were some card rooms that didn't even spread texas hold'em in the late 70's and early 80's.
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I don't need to be careful. My post addressed the original question in this thread:
" If so do you use it as a betting line or a muck line or anything of the sort? I'm trying to clean up some of the dirty rules that we have in our room and was looking for feedback."
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I'll have something for you after the Summit.
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Jack McClelland is the Tournament Director of the Bellagio in Las Vegas.
Here is his explanation of how a betting line works:
http://www.cardplayer.com/cptv/channels/13-other-poker-videos/poker-videos/3922-ask-jack-betting-lines
That is funny especially considering that the Bellagio doesn't even use a betting line. It's on the table for show.
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Funny this post should come up. I was trying to decide on whether on not to make betting lines for the new tables I am having made for my room. It sounds like it could add more confusion than it is worth. I think if I do add them, though, I will adopt the rule as simply releasing chips past the betting lines will be the only amount considered as a bet. Having the dealer try to determine how many chips passed the line if they are in someones hand just seems like it opens itself up for floor call after floor call. I like the idea of having betting lines at all much less after reading the posts.
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Silverfox: Welcome to the TDA Forum!!
My question back to you would be? If only chips that are released across the line "count", why have the line at all? In my opinion, most of the problems with the "line" are due to inconsistent enforcement by dealers. I am of the opinion the 'line' creates as many or more problems than it solves. That said, you can always order your layouts with the line, try them out and if they don't work, just ignore them.
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The way that I like the rule enforced is by release. Released passed the line is even better. Having the line removes necessity of a forward motion rule and a release rule cleans up any mess from the line. Best of both worlds!
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Interesting tidbit today.... We are just getting underway for the WPT portion of the event @Seminole Hard Rock in FL and I quote Matt after he asked the director of operations here, confirming that they don't use the LINE, "Thank God" with a clear exacerbated sigh of relief.... hahahha :D
IMO and his apparently.... it is a Dreaded LINE.
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It's interesting to see how many tour operators have ditched the line nowadays, I believe the big names have all ditched it WSOP and EPT namely I believe. I made sure I adopted a rule into our's to cover the subject but for our purposes any table that has a line is meaningless.
Chip Movement: Chip release is employed as the method for betting and raising, forward motion may be binding
if another player acts on it – for example a player may lift a full stack (20) chips then cut off 10 chips and withdraw the
remainder, where a player moves their stack or part of their stack forward and this causes a reaction from another
player still to act, this action may be binding, subject to the Tournament Director’s discretion
Best
Stu