PokerTDA
POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: Georg on March 11, 2011, 01:31:16 PM
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Tournament, Blinds 100-200:
Preflop Player 1 goes all in (1.000 chips), Player 2 calls (3.000 chips), Player 3 calls (4.000 chips) other players fold.
The dealer now announces "showdown please" Player 2 opens his cards. I get called to the table.
Any suggestions?
Georg
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Hello Georg,
I can only speak for myself but, I think that your question is unclear, and that is why no one has reponded. I don't understand Player 2 calls (3.000 chips). Did you mean raises to? And, if so how does Player 3 go to (4.000)?
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Yes, sorry Nick I was in a little hurry. I meant that these were their total stacks. So Player1 was all in, while player 2 and 3 still had chips left to continue play. The dealer said showdown, and player 2 opened his cards.
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Georg,
In fairness I would give player 3 his extra 1.000 back and let 2 and 3 compete for a side pot consisting of their extra 2.000 each (side pot of 4.000) and player 1 is in for the main pot with his 1.000 and 1.000 from the other two players plus the blinds (total main pot 3.000 plus blinds if any). It's unfortunate that the other players could not compete in the later rounds but, I think that would be fair.
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To further clarify the situation: Player 2 and 3 called Player 1s all in of 1000. So the Pot is 3000 and the Pre Flop betting is complete. Player 2 now has 2000 behind and Player 3 has 3000 behind. Unfortunately the dealer tells the players to showdown their cards. Player 2 complies and opens his hand.
I can think of the following solutions:
- We allow Player 2 to continue play with his exposed hand
- We do not allow any further betting in the hand by players 2 or 3
- We let player 2 decide if he likes to continue with an exposed hand or not
What do you think?
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If you read my prior post, you will see that I prefer no more betting and return the extra 1.000 to player 3.
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Thank you Nick!
Georg
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Georg,
You are welcome. I took another look at your question and I want you to know the action of the dealer (in error), asking the players to turn over their cards is what makes my decision easier. If Player 2, just turned his cards over by mistake, I would have made him play with an open hand and he would be subject to all bets and raises from Player 3. We have to discourage players from thinking that they can get a free look if their cards are exposed.
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So are you saying Nick, that exposed cards from one or more players the play continues unless ALL players accidentally or deliberately expose their cards then there is an automatic showdown?
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Andy,
If you have a specific situation in mind, it would be helpful if you pass it along. I answered the example that Georg had questions about. Each situation could be very different from any other. What I was trying to get across is; when a player is asked by the dealer to expose their hand, they are not completely at fault when they do so. When the mistake takes place, might also affect my ruling, for example, I might make a different ruling pre flop than I would on the last betting round. A player deliberately showing their cards should, at the very least, be given a warning. Andy, when you say the hand continues, it will be played out to the river but, there might not be any further betting. A player that is misled by the dealer should have some protection from further financial damage. The player that drops his own hand face-up on the table faces the disadvantage of playing with an open hand. They alone are at fault, and could suffer the consiquences.
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so are you saying the player is skipped allowing the other players to bet? Again I apologise for not posting but this really has me intrigued and I do post an awful lot of questions. Some people say you can bet with an exposed hand while you're saying you cannot, is this true?
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what Nick has been saying is correct, it really all depends on when and how the card was exposed.
If it was clearly the fault (either accidentally or on purpose) of the PLAYER then he is stuck with them as exposed cards and the play should continue with everybody checking betting and raising as they wish, which includes the player with the exposed cards.
If it is somehow NOT the error of the player then some protection should be given, probably just excluding any more action for the rest of the hand and let the best hand win whatever is in the pot. Or some variation of that depending on when it happens.
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Arrr ok Jasper, so for example if the player with the exposed hand had them lifted up by someone because they felt like being a fool (not the player's fault) this would mean everyone else can check or bet as normal but that player is now skipped?
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Andy,
You lost me on this one. I know your question was not directed to me but, I thought that the answers were quite clear. We went through this exact topic on an earlier post. I'll look for it later.
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it is clear but you see Jasper raised something on here which I couldnt help but wonder. If the player exposes his hand deliberately or accidentally which was his/her fault I gathered the hand plays on as if he/she hadnt shown at all. However, as Jasper mentioned if the player exposes under circumstances which wasn't his or her fault then I was asking whether the player is skipped instead and still eligible for the showdown instead of being able to play the hand as normal.
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Wolfster, as to the player that has his hand exposed because of a dealer error or even another player screwing around (which is actually another problem....) he doesn't just get skipped. We are saying that action is suspended completely for all players. That way he is at no further financial risk and the others have no further advantage.