PokerTDA
POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: NiclasG on March 31, 2010, 05:04:38 AM
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Hello ill try to make this situation as short as possible.
this is a 400 player tournament 3 day event.
Breaking a table, all but player B is present at the table.
all players move to new table,except B (dealer is waiting 5 minutes for B to return)
player A is drawn a seat on a table close to playerBs table draw ( we have now moved player B´s stack to new table,dealer is still waitning at the broken table for the player)
player A sits down and plays a few hands on the correct seat (information about player A, he is Really drunk) then he leaves the table for smoke or whatever.
player B has still not returned and his stack is on the new table.
Now player A returns and sits down on players B´s table and seat(remember that no one at this table has seen the player supposed to be at this table (blinds is 200/400, he has a stack of 16000 ) and in utg position he moves allin with AT, gets called by AK and looses the hand and is busted.
Still no sign of player B.
Now player A tries to sit down at his original table and play a hand , and the players on that table protest and calls the floor.
Big commotion cause it seems noone knows who player B is.
after fact finding for about 12 minutes( i have stopped the play on those 2 tables that are involved( luckily the was a dinner break for the players after this level so i could let them play on the lost time in the dinner break) i declare player A Disqualified for playing another players stack.
and now the player B returns. what to do with his missing stack?
I decided that the winning player in the hand with AK should keep his chips, because he did play in good faith and won the hand fair and square.
i then moved A´s chips to player B (i had to add some chips cause he had less then 16000 .
Then we resumed the play.
the question is , was it correct to let the winner in the hand against player A to keep the winning?
( i also did try to find out that player A did or did not know the winner with AK) wich he didnt.
I have a hard time seeing that the AK winner should be punished when he won the hand.
what do you ppl think?
Niclas Gustafsson
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Nick,
I think you should follow the Question below, it is very similar to your situation.
C3Events
TDA Member
Posts: 7
A new one for me!
« on: February 21, 2010, 04:09:35 am »
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In my last charity tournament, I was faces with two tough calls, wouldn't mind hearing opinions.
For about 10 minutes into play after a break, a player sat down at the wrong chip stack and was playing and winning. The rightful player showed up the that seat card, and I was called over for a ruling. The player had added 4,000 chips to the stack, and the table had 7 players plus him. (I knew the exact chip count as the rightful player had it written on his receipt)
The player that sat in the wrong seat had paid some blinds in his rightful stack. There was no way for me to discern which players were beat out of what amount from the wrong player.
What do you do? How do you rule?
Check it out. There are some really good suggestions.
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This is a very interesting thread and the situation comes up more often than you think. I know a very well-known player who did this at the start of an event. Since no one knew who should have been at the table, no one knew it wasn't supposed to be her. This is where dealer training can be very, very important. Had the dealers in all situations done their jobs and asked for the seating card (or receipt in a newly starting event) these errors could not have happened. I used to get a little irritated being asked for my receipt at the start of the T thinking "how tough is it to find table x, seat x" but soon realized that these errors are made frequently. Dealer training can stop so many mistakes before they occur to where you need to make a decision. Unclear bets, unclear intents, etc. I like the answers from the other thread and think it does address the new topic here.
Good stuff!
Jan Fisher
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NiclasG,
Tough situation and the answers from the 'a new one for me' thread do cover it mostly. There is a difference as drunk player A has busted out an absent player.
After some (careful) consideration, IMO player A is DSQ'd immediately, banned from any future events of mine and his chips are removed from play. the winner with AK unfortunately has to return the chips to player B's stack as those chips were not player A's to loose in the first place.
It's unfortunate for AK player but I really don't see how I can let him keep them legitimately in keeping with the best interests of the game, I can see your method, by doing this, but then it opens the door to situations again where players know your going to the chip store and your going to put more chips in play.
Regards
Stuart
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Thank you for your reply.
I have been thinking of this situation a couple of days now, and i started to leaning towards stuarts decision would be the correct one.
Cause if the player A would have won and eliminated player B, i would have with no doubt given back the chips to player B.
So for the straight line i should not let B keep player A chips, even though he played in "Good Faith" and won the hand fair and square.
this also will eliminate the collusion aspekt of the error.
Im still shrivering in the thought that B would have been eliminated and left the building, and A would keep playing some more hands and then return to his correct seat ... that would have been really ugly.
Regards Niclas Gustafsson