PokerTDA
POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: deagian on December 17, 2014, 06:32:15 PM
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hello,
full ring at the river players in heads up
player a with the nuts first to act can check? or must to bet?
or just when is last to act with the nuts the player must to bet?
thanks for your replay
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Only last position must you take aggressive action with the nuts. Early player may be attempting a check raise. It is considered soft play, therefore collusion, to check when you're last. Hope this helps.
Jan Fisher
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but if they are 2 players from the same nation in a table of all players from uk? for example?
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Collusion and/or soft play are a tough thing to prove. One of the few undisputable times in which a player is softplaying is if there is no one left to act after him and he checks the nuts.
Something to keep in mind is that it certainly is possible that a player may have misread his hand, other times when there is one card to broadway and already been bets on previous streets that the last player might check figuring the other player wouldn't have called him without having same hand anyway. While both of these cannot excuse the infraction and should still be grounds for at least a warning, just keep in mind that it's quite often not collusion, per se.
As an aside, I have always installed the rule that it must be the exclusive nut hand to warrant a penalty, meaning the nut hand without the possibility of another player tying it. I have done this for the reason that a person could argue that he was a skilled enough player that he knew the other player had the same hand as him and betting was a waste of clock time.
The excuse that a player checked the exclusive nuts just so that his opponent has to show his hand, or show his hand first is not a valid excuse.
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The rule only pertains to the exclusive nut hand, not a high straight. I'm not sure where Brian is going with the "one card to broadway?" Jan explained the rule perfectly, but I'm sure she meant to precede "the nuts" with "exclusive" when writing her explanation.
Jan, it's good to see you back on the Forum.
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Unless I'm mistaken (as it happens so often), Rule 58 addresses soft play but there is no definition or illustration of what constitutes soft play. There is no specific rule that dictates how one must play the nuts be it the exclusive or not and whether the player is or isn't acting last. I agree, most would agree that the last player to act with the exclusive nuts should make a bet lest it be considered soft play. But, without knowing intent can we be fair in always imposing a penalty? If the answer is yes, I think it would be well worthwhile to point this out either in the rules or in the Illustration Addendum.
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The rule only pertains to the exclusive nut hand, not a high straight. I'm not sure where Brian is going with the "one card to broadway?" Jan explained the rule perfectly, but I'm sure she meant to precede "the nuts" with "exclusive" when writing her explanation.
Jan, it's good to see you back on the Forum.
What I meant was that often if a board is 10-J-Q-A and a guy puts in a big bet that a guy with the King will just call since he figures it to be a chop (one card to make the Broadway straight). While it may be technically soft play, I don't consider that collusion and worthy of a penalty, this is why I advocate for "exclusive nut hand" as you do.