Think I made a slight error in a decision I was part of at a local pub game. Can I have people's thoughts on this one please. Obviously chip counts are approximate but roughly correct in relation to each other.
Blinds 800/1600
Seat 1 - Player A - SB - 4000
Seat 2 - Player B - BB - 32000
Seat 3 - Player C - 18000
Seat 4 - Player D - 6000
Seat 5 - Player E - 6000
Seat 6 - Player F - 6000
Seat 7 - Player G - dealer - 10000
C - calls for 1600
D - folds
E - folds
F - all in for 6000
G - folds
A - folds
B - declares "raise" and pauses to think for several seconds then flings in 3600 whilst declaring "3600"
I ruled that the declaration of "raise" must stand and that they must raise the all- in from Player F as there is still Player C has still to act.
Player B then loses the rag and a discussion ensues with Player C saying that he is going to fold anyway so he just has to call bet.
I warn Player C that he should not discuss his hand prior to his time of acting.
Player B raises all-in and Player C folds.
My question is that is the original ruling of the raise must stand correct?
My reasons for making it were:
1. Verbal raise
2. The pause before betting
3. Another player is still to act
If player B has declared "raise" and immeditely acted I may have taken that as a genuine mistake and allowed him to take chips back.
TheFalcon,
Welcome! I think you handled it correctly. Verbal is binding and another player is still in the hand. I'm not too sure the hesitation has anything to do with your decision but, IMO you made the right call.
Warning player C was also a good thing to do. What if Player C said he wasn't going to call and then he changes his mind? One of the most important rules for any poker player...act in turn.
Quote from: Nick C on November 01, 2011, 11:01:30 AM
TheFalcon,
Welcome! I think you handled it correctly. Verbal is binding and another player is still in the hand. I'm not too sure the hesitation has anything to do with your decision but, IMO you made the right call.
Warning player C was also a good thing to do. What if Player C said he wasn't going to call and then he changes his mind? One of the most important rules for any poker player...act in turn.
Thanks for that.
Am I correct in thinking if Player B had just thrown in chips (say 3200) without verbalising raise, but thinking it was one, and as this would be, short of a raise on the all-in of the other player, the correct ruling would be that he would be allowed to take the 3200 back and fold or put in chips to make the minimum raise which would be a total of 10400. i.e. 1600 from BB, 4400 to match raise of other player and 4400 as min raise.
The original ruling you made was correct and fair. It is a players responsibility to know what the bet is.
Quote from: TheFalcon on November 01, 2011, 11:33:02 AM
Thanks for that.
Am I correct in thinking if Player B had just thrown in chips (say 3200) without verbalising raise, but thinking it was one, and as this would be, short of a raise on the all-in of the other player, the correct ruling would be that he would be allowed to take the 3200 back and fold or put in chips to make the minimum raise which would be a total of 10400. i.e. 1600 from BB, 4400 to match raise of other player and 4400 as min raise.
Just one other thing though, I would not allow the player to take back his 3200. Fold and leave the chips in or make it a min raise.
everything you did sounds fine, in your second post, under TDA rules alone, the player would be permitted to 'retract and re-consider' his options of the 3,200 bet, under a lot of house, league and tour rules, the 3,200 would have to stay in and he would be permitted to either call the 6,000 or fold, loosing the 3,200 he put in as he was not paying attention.
In the first post, player B announced raise, and tossed in 3,600 total, I would bind him to 4,400 more (10,400 total) a minimum raise, as he has already attempted to make it 3,600 total, by failing to keep abreast of current action, and not permit him to move in, a small penalty to player C should also suffice or in your case a warning.
Regards
Stuart
I feel Stuart is right. He's verbally committed to raise, and the min raise at that, which is to 10,400