I can't remember the specifics on that from the Summit either.
K-Lo, why would you rule 1 dead but then not 2? In both cases the player was only called when they tried to muck. I'm trying to understand why that would be viewed differently.
Hey Tristan:
Maybe I am misunderstanding situation 2. In the past, for situation 1, I was personally in favour of returning the hand of the BB, but I am pretty sure this was settled at the Summit, that the fold should be binding. The argument was that players get really pissed off when a hand that someone was willing to fold voluntarily pre-flop ends up being a winner. Put another way, the BBs intention at that point was to surrender his hand, and so he should be allowed to do so. (I admit though, I still tend to follow Nick's approach - give the player the benefit of the doubt unless he keeps doing it).
The key here, I think, is the act of voluntary surrender of the hand. The way that I understood situation 2 is that he does not realize that he has been called and that there is still action to be had on further streets. In this case, it is unlikely there was any intention to abandon or surrender the hand, and I think it is part of the dealer's job to protect the muck and preserve the action. Of course, you could argue that if the Big Blind was aware that he could have checked and seen a free flop, he would not have surrendered his hand, but I definitely see a difference in degree - in situation 1, the big blind has actually shown a willingness to abandon his hand
despite knowing that he has been called -- this is different from attempting to fold when he doesn't know he has been called post-flop (the 'level' of willingness to abandon his hand is IMO relatively less).
I don't think that the amounts involved should make a difference. It would be very difficult to draw the line at a certain amount.
With respect to Martin's two follow up situations, I agree with Nick's response. In both cases, the cards are live if clearly identifiable and retrievable. The difference is in the first case, the dealer knows that the action is complete and should muck B's hand ASAP. This solves all issues. Currently, forward motion alone is not, in it of itself, a binding fold. In the other case, the dealer knows that there is still action pending, so he should give the hand back instead of mucking it (but if it does end up in the muck, too bad for the player).