POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General

Table talk

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MaxH:
Hi Nick,
The way I see it is it could be a form of soft collusion if calling the bet busted player B. To my mind, the threat of having the nuts is a little like showing one's cards.
Best,

Nick C:
MaxH
 
 Your original post gave no indication of any unusual betting prior to the head to head action. I find those actions difficult to have any bearing on the outcome of a hand. As long as no player is " caught in the middle" I don't see anything wrong with telling a player you have him beat. Verbal declarations when betting are binding, but verbal statements of what you are holding are not.

That's how I see it.

Stuart Murray:
At my tables I do draw a line between banter and table talk between players and those players trying to influence the outcome of a hand, Nick does have some valid points about it being heads-up however the above still applies for me, saying you've got the nuts could effectively be like exposing your cards - would you allow that heads-up?

An excellent thread covering this very subject is on the Hendon Mob Website, in a series called your the tournament director, with the likes of Matt Savage replying on situations and be found here:

http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director/ive_got_aces_and_iam_allin.html

I definitely believe firmly whether heads-up or not that by stating you have the nuts you are trying to affect the action of that hand and therefore it is not in the best interests of the game, whereas questioning the other player with phraseology such as "You got a flush" "You got the ace, I think you have the ace" are more acceptable, I recently saw a situation where Gus Hansen viewed Huck Seeds hand whilst Huck was facing a bet, whilst it is a violation of the one player to a hand rule it did not damage the game as Gus was all-in.  That kind of situation is reverse information where the player is not giving information on the contents of their own hand to the other player, and IMO borderline acceptable, effectively telling someone to fold is not acceptable in my eyes however.

I had a situation where a beginner questioned another player as to their hand and they replied a high pair, the player called and the opponent turned over the nut flush, I let it go with a warning as although he was deceiving his opponent, he was still giving information I don't believe should be open - your hole cards are just that and IMO the should read themselves only ever at showdown, I have even saw myself when heads up in a situation where I flopped the nut full, and the river completed a four card broadway straight, with only the ace required, I bet into the player with speeches such as "I don't think you have the ace, Have you got the ace?" this type of table talk in my eyes is acceptable as I am not turning to the player and trying to influence his decision - I am misleading my opponent by my statement on his hand.

Stuart

Nick C:
Stuart,
 The consensus of the Hendon Mob was exactly what I said. Who said that you couldn't lie in poker? Head to head is different than talk in a multy handed pot. The most interesting issue that was not even mentioned on that link was the player calling the other player a punk. He might find himself lying on the floor before the hand is complete. That was worthy of a warning.
 I once played  in a house tournament where a $10 penalty was imposed on any player that spoke any words other than, I fold, or I'm out, or I bet $20 or any word that was not related to the hand in progress. I kid you not! That paid for our pizza and chicken wings.
 I will quote a ruling that the Seneca Nation enforces in their tournaments under PLAYER CONDUCT: Table talk must be kept to a minimun whenever there are 3 or more active players in a hand.
 Stuart, I think it's comical that you actually think that your statements are okay, but what the other player said was unacceptable.
Who talked more than Jamie Gold when he won the main event?......The answer......nobody.
 

MaxH:
I agree with Stuart as to where he draws the line between banter and table talk although there is more latitude allowed when players are heads-up. My opinion is that stating the value of your hand is much like exposing your cards and I certainly wouldn't allow that.
Best,

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