POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General

Dealer Error - Pre-exposed flop, turn, and or river

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AleaLeedsCardRoom:
I agree with what you are saying, however I hae a question.  My understanding is that we burn cards to prevent boxed or makred cards from having an impact on the hand in progress.  So if the flop is exposed too early and we deal the board as stated, then what would be do if one of the turn/river was boxed or marked, as this would/could give some players an advantage.

Thanks

Stuart Murray:
Agreed,

It is not a perfect system, but to maintain integrity, the board must be as close to what it should be.  With regard to boxed cards, that is relatively simple as they are treated as meaninless scraps of paper and mucked before the next card in the deck replaces that card.

With regard to marked cards, I agree there is cause for some concern there, I run pub poker so it would be more of a problem for me, but generally speaking marked cards should be immediately identified and replaced or decks changed immediately when discovered so a marked card should never be in circulation for long enough that it would have a questionable impact on the best interests of the game.

Regards
Stuart

Nick C:
AlealeedsCardRoom,

  I'm not sure I understand why you would question the method used whenever the deck has to be reconstructed. Think about the process, the dealer burned a card and put the flop out before the betting was complete. After the action is corrected, the dealer re-shuffles the deck, leaving the proper burn card on the table, cuts the cards, (and without burning again), puts down the flop. There is no chance to see a marked card, because, the top card after the dealer cuts the deck is part of the flop that is immediately placed on the table. I agree with Stuart when he mentions integrity and an imperfect system, but let's not forget that the dealer messed up by burning and turning before the action was complete. The dealer mistake has consequences, and under the circumstances the method described above has proven to work out best. Stuart also made reference to the board being as close to what it should be. In other words, we should always strive for "proper card" or the card that would have played if no error occurred.
 

AleaLeedsCardRoom:
Nick C,
I do agree with the method that Stuart stated, it is the one I use.  However in Stuart's earlier post he said that you deal the rest of the board face down (in this situation 2 burns, the turn and river) BEFORE shuffeling the flop back into the deck, and re dealing it.  So marked cards do become an issue here.

Nick C:
That is the first time that I've heard of the method described by Stuart. As far as "proper card" I like it even better than the method I described, but, like you say, there is more risk of exposing a card, or separating the burn, and the muck from the board. The best solution is to make sure that the dealers don't deal until all action is complete on that betting round. If you notice on my earlier reply I mention the skipped player being the last player to act, because there are different answers to the dealer burning and turning the flop, if the skipped player was followed by substantial action. In that case, the skipped player would have a dead hand and the flop would remain on the table. Example: Player in the 5 seat calls BB, 6 seat calls, 7 seat skipped, 8 seat calls, nine seat folds. The dealer then burns and turns the flop. The flop remains and seat 7 has a dead hand.

I'm expecting to generate a little action on this one.

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