LIVE CASH GAME POKER RULES DISCUSSION > Live Cash Game Rules Questions

Pre-raising an out of turn raise?

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Stuart Murray:
If it's only 4 players at the table then yes, back up the action, if there were 5 or more players at the table I would rule the UTG players hand dead, in fact come to think of it 3 players have acted at minimum, seat 4 raised out of turn, seat 1 and 2 i will presume passed so therefore seat 3 has a dead hand as he failed to call attention to his right to action within the prescribed timescale.

Therefore, for me IMHO Seat 3's hand is dead.

RROP Irregularities:
12.   To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act

Best
Stu

Nick C:
Stuart,
 We have gone over this very subject at great lentgh on other posts. I have to say that the rule is not clear (to me) as written. If RROP wants the hand killed why don't they say it? Why do they leave it open to confusion; ...."may cause you to lose the right to act.".... If the hand is dead after three people act behind you, then that is what they need to say. I do not interpret the rule the way you do but, I can see why there are differing opinions.

Spence:
What I construe from "may cause you to lose the right to act" is that it means you cannot raise. That your actions would be bound to a call or fold. If that's the case then there is not an issue with the RRoP misdeal due to boxed cards.

Nick C:
Spence,
 That is always the way that I understood it, too. This is my biggest complaint with many rules, they are not as clear as they could be.

Stuart Murray:
Whoops, what am I thinking, yeh you are correct he looses the right to act, not his hand because it is a missed player and the street's betting is still ongoing, apologies Nick, therefore action is not backed upto him, he looses his right to aggressive action during the street and can only call the additional $1 or fold. Once the turn is out his options are normal, but if seat 1 or 2 had put in an intervening raise, say to $25 he would be released from his bind.

Best Stu

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