POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA Rules and amendments to existing rules: READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2019 Summit

Multiple short all-ins, re-opening the bet, minimum amt to raise etc.

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Max D:
Got it Nick.  So the real question: should rules #48 & #47 and/or the addendum be tweaked/clarified? 
And the clarification is specifically around:
- in #47 "must be at least equal to the largest prior bet"
- in #48 "are not facing at least a full bet or raise when the action returns to them"

When reading 47, 48 and the addendum it is pretty clear, but I agree that read independently clarifying the terms may help.

Nick C:
Greg and Max

 Greg, you wrote: "A player may only raise if it is their first opportunity to act in the current round" Not sure I'm understanding this. You might check on your first opportunity to act...or bet, correct?

 Max: Here is the current rule#48: Re-Opening the Bet.

In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager (or multiple short all-ins) totaling less than a full bet or raise does not reopen betting for players who have already acted and are not facing at least a full bet or raise when the action returns to them. In limit, at least 50% of a full bet or raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Illustration Addendum.

I'd like to eliminate what I've highlighted in red.

GreggPath:

--- Quote from: Nick C on March 20, 2018, 03:17:01 PM --- Greg, you wrote: "A player may only raise if it is their first opportunity to act in the current round" Not sure I'm understanding this. You might check on your first opportunity to act...or bet, correct?

--- End quote ---

I see your confusion. That could be taken as to mean raising is your only option in those situations. I'm trying to point out situations when you CAN raise, not MUST raise. Maybe instead, "The only situations where a player may raise if it is their first opportunity to act in the current round (and they are facing a bet) or if they are facing a total bet which is at least double what they have already wagered in the current round."


--- Quote from: Nick C on March 20, 2018, 03:17:01 PM --- Max: Here is the current rule#48: Re-Opening the Bet.

In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager (or multiple short all-ins) totaling less than a full bet or raise does not reopen betting for players who have already acted and are not facing at least a full bet or raise when the action returns to them. In limit, at least 50% of a full bet or raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Illustration Addendum.

I'd like to eliminate what I've highlighted in red.

--- End quote ---

But I think I am trying to get to the same rule as your are. That is, multiple short all-ins should be considered a full raise if they reach the target cumulatively.

Nick C:
Gregg,

 Yes...so the bottom line: At least one of the all-in players has got to reach a double your bet before you can raise! The short all-in is meaningless...the short all-in is irrelevant...the short all-in should be overlooked...a short all-in of any fraction of an increase can never be calculated as a raise...etc, etc, etc!

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