PokerTDA

POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: hbundy on June 06, 2015, 03:13:03 PM

Title: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: hbundy on June 06, 2015, 03:13:03 PM

play is heads up with $5K for first and $1500 for second.  complete and check preflop.  flop is 57T, bet and call.  turn is 5.  bet, raise, push, call, then recognize that both 5s are the 5d. what do you do?  return all bets and kill hands, or play it out since substantial action has ocurred?

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: Nick C on June 06, 2015, 05:19:18 PM

Welcome hbundy,

 I don't quite understand your complete question. However, I believe I have enough to tell you that the deck is fouled and the money should be returned, change the deck and start all over again.

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: chet on June 06, 2015, 07:22:44 PM

Nick gave you the only solution possible. 

Just to make things more interesting, assuming this is not a bar or a home type game, would be to check the gaming rules to see what, if anything, they say about a fouled deck.  I suspect those rules, if they exist, would require the hand to be cancelled and all bets returned.

Chet

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: Brian Vickers on June 08, 2015, 12:51:06 PM

Just chiming in my agreement: entire hand is fouled, all bets, blinds, antes are returned to their original owner, button stays where it is, blinds do not move and deal the hand again after fixing the deck.  No new players may be seated, etc. as the re-deal should be an exact replay (other than the deck).

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: Spence on June 12, 2015, 07:33:01 AM

How long did they play with a fouled deck?  How far back would you refund hands?  If it was a heads up tournament that was playing with a fouled deck since the start to you give them the original stack back and have them play it out again?

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: Nick C on June 12, 2015, 07:51:22 AM

Spence,

 Unfortunately I don't think you can go back, that's only my opinion based on substantial action, it is possible to play for quite some time (I imagine) without ever realizing there were; two aces of spades, for example.

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: BillM16 on June 12, 2015, 08:43:42 AM

I think there is another possibility under these specific circumstances:

• play is heads up
• all betting is complete

It is possible to burn and deal the river.  Then, we could determine just how fouled was the deck and if it could have affected the outcome of the hand:

• if there were 52 cards in the deck, 51 were correct and the 52nd card was the 5 of the incorrect suit
• if no flush draw of the affected suits was involved in either hand

Under these circumstances, I would let the hand stand.

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: chet on June 13, 2015, 08:27:30 AM

Bill: 

I think your missing the original situation, one of the players has THREE hole cards.  It isn't the deck that is fouled, it is the players hole cards.  There is no solution other than to declare that hand dead and award the pot to the remaining player.

Chet

Title: Re: fouled deck in heads up play after substantial action
Post by: chet on June 13, 2015, 08:09:42 PM

Bill you are right, I was thinking of another thread, sorry

Chet