POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2017 Summit

Retrieving mucked cards: under what circumstances?

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BROOKS:
Thank you for the clarification Mike. Exactly the information I was looking for

Nick C:
Brooks,

 The question you asked; "Players asking to see a hand at showdown, doesn't the dealer  tapping the cards on the muck before opening,  "kill" that hand, therefore it cannot win??
There was mention of the "winning" hand asking to see another hand, and it would have to be live.
Some clarification on this would be good too."

 This is from Robert's Rules: . "Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins."

 I realize you were looking for the TDA rule but wouldn't the TDA rule still apply in your following situation? "In my world, both of these hands are tapped on the muck to kill them, so they are not in contention for the pot.
You're telling me that if B or C misread their hand/the board and has Ace rag they can now win too."
 
 Yes...they would win too, as long as a flush was not displayed.

Brian Vickers:
I'm firmly against the "magic muck" principle; either cards are identifiable or they aren't.  "Tapping the muck to symbolically kill a hand" is an unnecessary step is done for no other reason than out of tradition of old card rooms.  Showing a hand that is requested is well covered by Robert's Rules and doesn't mention tapping the muck.  As far as taking cards out of the muck completely: If a dealer takes a protected hand from a player and starts to bring them into the muck, they should absolutely be recovered if we can be 100% sure of their identity.

Nick C:
Brian,

 What dealer would take a protected hand from a player and muck it? ???

You said: "Tapping the muck to symbolically kill a hand" is an unnecessary step is done for no other reason than out of tradition of old card rooms." It may be a tradition, but it's the best way to isolate the proper cards without releasing them.

Dave Miller:

--- Quote from: Nick C on May 16, 2017, 01:38:41 PM ---What dealer would take a protected hand from a player and muck it? ???
--- End quote ---
Seriously?
It happpens a lot, particularly to players in seat 1 or 10.


Edit: I missed the 'protected' part...

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