POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2017 Summit
Rule 44: clarifying language needed on short all-ins totalling a full min raise?
MikeB:
Is any clarifying language to Rule 44 (Re-Opening the Bet) needed to clarify situations where the min raise is reached by multiple short all-ins rather than one single min raise?
Such as:
"In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen betting for a player who has already acted and is not facing a bet amount totaling at least a full raise when the action returns to him. In limit, at least 50% of a full raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Addendum".
"In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen betting for a player who has already acted and is not facing a total bet that constitutes at least a full raise when the action returns to him. In limit, at least 50% of a full raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Addendum".
or, with more explanatory language in the rule itself:
"In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen betting for a player who has already acted and is not facing at least a full raise when the action returns to him. The full raise may result from of a min raise by a single player or multiple players making short all-in wagers that total a min raise. In limit, at least 50% of a full raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Addendum.
BillM16:
Mike, I suggest wording that states what "does" versus "does not" reopen betting. For example:
In no-limit and pot limit games, betting is reopened for a player who has already acted provided they are facing a wager that is minimally a full raise over their previous wager. In limit games, betting is reopened if facing a wager that is minimally 50% of a full raise. After a player has acted, any wager that is a minimal raise can reopen betting to that player. This includes multiple short all-in wagers that result in a minimal raise.
Nick C:
Mike and Bill,
I can't tell you how important a change would be. I like all of the suggestions. however if we could somehow better define that the "short" all-in is NOT a full raise but is recognized as such for all-in players. I prefer this as opposed to our back and forth with the same comments from both sides.
Mike, I'll work on a suggestion or two and pass them along for your input.
Thanks for not dropping this important subject.
Nick C:
Mike I will add my suggestions to your prior post and see what you think. I will highlight my input in green.
"In no-limit and pot limit, an (increased bet) from an all-in (player) of less than a full raise (will) reopen betting for a player who has already acted if the amount equals 100% of the original bet. (A player who has "checked" on his turn to act may participate when action returns to him.) In limit, at least 50% of a full raise is required to re-open betting for players who have already acted. See Addendum".
chet:
I vote for the Mike B's third example. It is clear, concise and does not introduce any new terms/words that may require clarification.
'nuff said!!
Chet
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