Author Topic: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack  (Read 7193 times)

Nick C

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2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« on: December 30, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »
 A dealer friend of mine, and former student, visited me over the Christmas Holiday. He had a couple of interesting situations that occurred recently and I told him I'd post them for your feedback:

 The action is heads-up.  Player 1 bets $30 and player 2 raises to $105. Player 1 asks "$75 more?" but player 2 hears it as "$75 more than his $105" and sails his hand into the muck.  Player 1 played it off like he was trying to raise but later on he told me he wasn't.  Obviously, player 2 has to protect his hand here.  I'm not sure what new rule could be made here.  It was just one of those silly situations.  Player 2 just heard him wrong.
 
The other situation had to do with players playing out of the rack.  A player with a monster chip stack (about to leave the table) racked up and decided he wanted to play another orbit or two.  I ask him to remove his chips from the racks, seeing as how he's going to be sticking around a bit, and he indicated that he didn't feel like taking all that time to empty the racks. I called the floor. The floor comes over and tells him he can either leave, or take the chips out of the rack.  He chooses to leave and the players left at the table are pissed.  The player just left with all the money.  The floor and I, according to the rules, were absolutely in the right.  But on the other hand, does playing out of the rack really even matter?  You never want to break up a good game especially over something kind of silly like that.

 So what is the reason for not allowing racks on the table? Years ago, it was accepted and practiced by everyone.
 

 

Tristan

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 10:28:12 PM »
We recently changed our rules from "can only play out of the rack until their blinds" to "can play out of their rack as long as they keep a working stack out".  Racks must still be propped up at an angle on the rail though.

I like it, less headaches.
Tristan
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K-Lo

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 08:34:11 AM »
What is the reason for not allowing racks on the table?

I'm no cash game expert, and this is a good question of which I am curious to know the answer as well.  If I had to guess, maybe there would be concerns as to whether the chips were in play for a particular hand or not when in a rack... ?

Nick C

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 08:53:32 AM »
Tristan,

 Thanks for your suggestion, it's more reasonable than forcing a player from the game. Ken, I'm with you on this one. I have played cash games most of my life and years ago we always played out of a rack...always. It seems to me that this is another one of those changes that took place, without good reason. Some joker probably hid a $20 bill under his rack and raised the cardroom managers girlfriend and all hell broke loose. ;D

 Who wanted the change?
 When was it first enforced?
 Where was it first implemented?
 Why?

Any thoughts on the other situation?

Tristan

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 11:58:39 AM »
My thoughts on the origin would be hidden chips or hidden cards.  That is the reason we have them remain propped up.

I imagine the other concern was visibility.  Can't see if players are in the hand, etc...
Tristan
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Stuart Murray

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 02:31:24 PM »
For the record I like the no playing out of a rack rule, it helps to maintain player transparency, I think it realistically solves more issues than it creates, especially with obscured chips, perhaps rows only being 18 chips instead of 20 etc etc
Stuart Murray
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Spence

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 08:49:12 AM »
I'm thinking that those who've been in the business for much more than 20 years would be better to answer the question as to what happened in underground clubs and similar venues but as far as I know this came about from casinos who in the 80's had a huge crackdown on table security. 

This was a time when casinos started being more transparent with their practices and had to institute a number of regulations.  You can't play BlackJack out of a rack at any casino that I know of.  Any table game for that matter.  It's all about table game security and my guess is that it translated into the Poker world the same way.

Nick C

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Re: 2 Situations Confusion on verbal raise/Playing chips from a rack
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 07:32:15 AM »
I was going over some old posts and thought that this one was worthy of a re-post and possibly some answers to why we can not play from a rack, or racks?

My guess is, some floorperson transferred from the "pit" or other table games to the poker room, brought that rule with them.