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accidental muck

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edfrzr:
Player 1 bet 25K. It went fold around the board to player 4 who said "All in and laid his his cards down in front of him. The dealer (not in the game) didn't hear him say anything and scooped up his cards into the muck to get ready for the next hand. THe TD on site felt he could not knock player 4 out of the tourney as he felt he did nothing wrong and it was the dealer's fault for not paying attention. THe TD on site knows it is a players responsibility to protect their hand, but felt the dealer didn't give player 4 an opportunity to do that as he was diretly acrooss the table. After some table discussion, it was decided to call the hand dead and replay it. Probably not what the rules state but that is what the TD decided. Given the circumstances, he felt that it was a fair ruling.

Help please.

Keep in mind this player has been warned several times about protecting his cards.

Thanks, 

K-Lo:
If the TD thought he had to rule off-book for reasons of fairness, then what can you do?  In my view, the player must protect his hand no matter what (except perhaps in the extreme case where I thought the dealer was acting maliciously).  In my view, his hand would be dead, but I would return any portion above 25k to him, if any.

Protect. Your. Hand.  If he has time to lay the cards down in front of him, then he has enough time to keep his hand on those cards to protect them.

Tristan:

--- Quote from: K-Lo on January 28, 2013, 05:04:30 PM ---In my view, his hand would be dead, but I would return any portion above 25k to him, if any.

Protect. Your. Hand.  If he has time to lay the cards down in front of him, then he has enough time to keep his hand on those cards to protect them.
--- End quote ---

I totally agree with K-Lo.  Like he also mentioned; a TD is entitled to make whatever decision they think is the fairest given the circumstances.

TDA Rule 1.  Floor people are to consider the best interest of the game and fairness as top priorities in the decision-making process. Unusual circumstances can on occasion dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over the technical rules. The floorperson’s decision is final.

Nick C:
edfrzr,
 First of all, I do not put the blame on the dealer. A better practice would be for Player 4 to push his all-in bet bet forward, before laying his unprotected hand on the table. The hand is irretrievably mucked and player 4 should lose his 25000. This is based on the action being heads-up. Didn't we learn anything from Koroknai & Baumann?

Let's not forget: " Keep in mind this player has been warned several times about protecting his cards."

chet:
Nick:

Why do you "assume" action is heads-up?  There is nothing in the original post to indicate that.  I don't disagree with your answer, I don't think that being "heads-up" has anything to do with this situation.  The player did not protect his hand, he had been warned several times, his bet is in the pot and his hand is dead as far as I am concerned.  I don't automatically blame the dealer.

Chet

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