Author Topic: Dead hand  (Read 3684 times)

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Dead hand
« on: January 09, 2013, 04:17:43 PM »
Interesting observation... Here at the pca, a player's hand is dead as soon as the first card is dealt to the first player.  Don't mind it actually.  People don't get a peek at hole cards and no one is sprinting to the table (at least not as much) ;)

Dave Lamb

  • TDA Founding Member
  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 65
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 06:30:46 PM »
It might seem like an innocent innovation to redefine when a hand is dead, but it does undermine attempts to standardize a procedure so that the players can go from one venue to another with consistent expectations.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 08:03:21 PM »
Ken,
 You are speaking of an absent player (not at his seat) when the first card is dealt?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 07:30:26 AM by Nick C »

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 08:01:32 PM »
Yes nick. Absent player not at seat when first card is dealt.

I agree Dave.  Standardization of the rules does seem like a pipe dream - everyone wants to do their own thing. 

The other interesting rule - substantial action is defined differently in pre-flop situations: essentially a misdeal can be called even if more than two/three people have acted so long as the big bling has not had his first action yet.  I am sure there are others.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:00:50 PM »
Too bad we can't reach those responsible for doing things any way they want, just because they can.

Luca P.

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • Alea Casino Nottingham
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 04:44:18 AM »
The rule about dead hands you stated is for pokerstars tourneys only.
They changed a few things, I argued with some PS floormen a month ago about standardizing rules (which they don't want to do)
Card Room Manager

Alea Casino
108 Upper Parliament Street
Nottingham
NG1 6LF
Tel 0115 871 7288

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
  • Poker Manager
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 12:02:29 PM »
The rule I have always seen in place (as a player or employee) is that if you are not "at your seat" when the last card is dealt to the button then you will have a dead hand at that time.

Tristan

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2013, 01:18:45 PM »
I can honestly say, after working the PCA, I did not hear one person complain about the first card rule.

But like the others have said, usually when players complain about something, it is because it is different than the 'norm'.  Keeping things as standard as possible reduces these frustrations. 

I did not see the substantial action come into play.

One thing that they do there that I like is in how they handle the hand for hand situations.  Once they reach the bubble, or close to it in big fields, they have the dealers stop the action once they have an all-in and a call.  The action waits until every dealer is standing, showing that they are completed with the hand.  Then any tables that have an all-in situation complete their hand.  This prevents a player from hearing there is an all-in on the other table and stalling until a winner is determined before they make their decision.  Fair for all!
Tristan
@TristanWilberg on Twitter

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2013, 06:07:44 PM »
One thing that they do there that I like is in how they handle the hand for hand situations.  Once they reach the bubble, or close to it in big fields, they have the dealers stop the action once they have an all-in and a call.  The action waits until every dealer is standing, showing that they are completed with the hand.  Then any tables that have an all-in situation complete their hand.  This prevents a player from hearing there is an all-in on the other table and stalling until a winner is determined before they make their decision.  Fair for all!

I like this.  Is this implemented anywhere else?  How do they do it at the wsop (I am drawing a blank)?

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 02:32:41 PM »
We've been doing this at the WSOP for the last 5 years.

The only part of this procedure that I don't like is that when all tables are completed the dealers are instructed to stand up. **For Large Events**

----->> Begin Rant
1. IT LOOKS BAD. Making employees sit down / deal one hand / stand up / sit down / deal one hand / stand up / sit down / deal one hand / stand up / sit down / etc.
2. Some floors believe it makes it easier to see which tables are done dealing. Not true. I makes it more difficult to see which tables are done IMO. With the dealers standing and the players all standing, stretching and so forth, the dealers get lost in the mix. There are tournament supervisor personnel on the floor for a reason. Assign them to a ROW. Standing at the end of a row the supervisor can see across 5-6 tables easy. Each supervisor can cover 2-3 rows easily. Have the dealer spread their deck to signify the hand is complete. Simple.
3. When dealers stand up, tables that are still playing are completely distracted. Players gaze across the room to see how many dealers are standing up.
4. Have a elevated podium for the "senior" supervisor / Director (what have you), to give them the ability to see over the crowd of players and possible spectators.
<<---- End Rant

:)
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: Dead hand
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 03:45:32 PM »
I agree!  Can't they just raise their hand?  Maybe we could have the dealer hold up some twirly, flashing light thingie instead.  :)