POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for new TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre-2013 Summit

Taking another look at the Raise Rule on re-opening

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Nick C:
So much attention has been given to Accepted Action, and Out of Turn that we have failed to resolve some issues with the Raise rule (currently #37). I think we need to clarify the last sentence:
           "In no-limit and pot limit, an all-in wager of less than a full raise does not reopen the betting to a player who has already acted."
On prior discussions, we have established that checking in turn is "action;" therefore, the current rule implies that a check-raise is not allowed.

 There are numerous posts on this subject but many go back to the old #31 that pertained to raises prior to the updated 2011 version.

 Trying to get something going here :D  

Steven:
The rule says the wager does not "re-open" it does not say it "closes" the betting to someone that has previously acted. So if we assume the checker can always check raise (I.e., the betting is open for him) and the bettor  needs the betting to be reopened,  then the current rule will not re-open for the bettor,  but the checker is already "open" and the "does not re-open" has no negative effect.

I agree that maybe the rule could be clarified, but "does not re-open" is not the same as "close" if the current state is already "open"

Nick C:
Steven,

 Like you, I understand what the rule implies. However, like you I also feel a need for more clarification. The current rule seems to apply only after a legal size bet has been made, otherwise no raise is possible? A player that checks in turn; can re-enter the betting round if another player opens that round, and will have every option open to them, including a raise.

 A brief explanation at the end of the rule would be enough. Any player, who has acted by checking in turn, is allowed to re-enter that round of betting with all options open to them.

  I'm trying to say that; the current rule does not apply to any player that has checked in turn prior to the bet and short all-in that followed. Whew! ::)

 The rule could actually apply to all games, limit included, if we changed some wording. Example: An all-in raise must qualify as the required legal amount, in order to reopen raising.

MikeB:

--- Quote from: Steven on August 24, 2012, 02:55:05 AM ---The rule says the wager does not "re-open" it does not say it "closes" the betting to someone that has previously acted. So if we assume the checker can always check raise (I.e., the betting is open for him) and the bettor  needs the betting to be reopened,  then the current rule will not re-open for the bettor,  but the checker is already "open" and the "does not re-open" has no negative effect.

I agree that maybe the rule could be clarified, but "does not re-open" is not the same as "close" if the current state is already "open"

--- End quote ---


While thumbing through these suggestions for rules changes at the Summit I came across this thread.... Just to clarify, a checker can't check-raise unless the action returning to him is at least a full bet

K-Lo:
Agreed.

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