POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for new TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre-2013 Summit

Rule 45 Non-Standard Folds Questions

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MikeB:
See following discussion on this topic.

Nick C:
Hello Mike,

 Can you explain why the first part of TDA #45 is necessary?

 45: Non-Standard Folds
Anytime before the end of the last betting round of a hand,

Also, why is it necessary to specify "in turn" ?

Wouldn't the following cover it all?

 Folding when facing a check, or folding out of turn, are binding and considered highly unethical. Offenders will be penalized.

chet:
Nick:  Read the rule carefully.  If you do you will see that rule 45 only applies if the hand has not yet reached the last betting round.  For example, in Hold'em, if, after a check in front of you, you fold a) on the post flop betting round or b) on the turn betting round, that action is binding and is subject to penalty.  Rule 45 does not apply to the pre-flop betting round since there is a 'bet', ie. the blinds in front of you or to the river betting round.  At least this is how I interpret this rule.

Neither rule applies pre-flop since there is a 'bet' (blinds).

Your proposal would apply post-flop which the existing rule does not.  Is that your intention?

If, on the river betting round, I know that there is no possible way I can win the hand other than a stone cold bluff, why can't I fold?  I don't want the other players to know that I am such a poor player or ??????????????????  so why?

Chet

Nick C:
Chet,
 I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Are you saying that you can fold during the last betting round when facing a check? I think my suggestion is much clearer.

 Let me play out this scenario: last round of betting, 4 players remain... I check, the next player checks, you can fold with another player to follow?

chet:
Nick: 

I guess I need to take some of my own advice and read the rule closer.  To quote some NFL officials, Upon Further Review I guess I agree with most of your suggestion except for the word "will" in the last sentence.  I prefer "May", as that gives me the option of whether or not to impose a penalty for the action.  Why would I choose not to impose a penalty, consider the new player who is just trying to learn the game.  I would prefer to pull that person aside, explain the rule and the reason therefore and go the "education" rather than the "enforcement" route. 

It seems like several of the words in the current rule are superfluous, as you pointed out.

Chet

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