Author Topic: Use of oversized chip in the BB  (Read 11174 times)

Brian Vickers

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2012, 12:08:42 PM »
I rule a call in all 3 cases because in every case, he is facing a bet of 50 (the difference he owed) and so the 500 is going on top of a 50-to-call bet, thus the overchip rule applies.

Nick C

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2012, 09:18:25 PM »
Gentlemen,

 When you are on the SB, (with blinds 50/100), do you expect me to believe that you toss a 500 chip into the pot without removing your 50 and expect the dealer to consider that a call?

 There are two solutions to this problem: #1 Stop players from touching any chips in the betting area, or #2 Make each player announce whatever the hell they are doing!
If they insist on making the dealers mind-readers, they should be prepared to suffer the consequences from their unclear actions! I know how difficult it can be for some players to say "call" or "raise." ::)

diz475

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2012, 01:01:48 PM »
i agree with K-LO the big blind has nothing to call so he is making a bet with a single chip. its a raise

and yes when the sb has 50 in and adds a single 500 doller chip to his 50,  its just a call of 100, this is one of the situations you know (or think you know) what he wanted to do but you are much better sticking to the rule then trying to decide what the guy wanted to do this will cause you to have problems down the road
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 01:18:45 PM by diz475 »

K-Lo

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2012, 06:15:52 AM »
Hi all:

I think it is generally accepted now that tossing in a single "oversized" chip in the SB, without a verbal declaration, is considered only a call and not a raise.  (Nick - I know you expressed some doubts above, but you did agree in an earlier post: http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=162.0, so I'm going to choose to rely on the old Nick... lol).  

The classic example is:  Blinds are 50/100, action folds around to SB, and it is 50 for the SB to call. SB throws in a 500 chip without a verbal declaration (leaving the 50 in front) - this is a call, and not a raise to 550, applying the oversized chip rule.

I'd like to explore the application of the "oversized" chip rule to blind situations a little more.  What does a single "oversized" chip mean to you?

Example 1:  *edited*

Blinds are 150/300.  The small blind has posted one 500 chip and awaits change.  Action folds around to the small blind.  Although he has a 500 chip out in front, only 150 is bound to the pot and it is 150 more for the SB to call.  

The small blind tosses in a single 100 chip (the 500 is still out in front).  Call?  Or Raise to 600?

Example 2:

Blinds are 600/1200.  The small blind has posted one 1000 chip in front and awaits change.  Action folds around to the small blind.  Although he has a 1000 chip out in front, only 600 is bound to the pot and it is 600 for the SB to call.

The small blind tosses in two 500 chips (the 1000 is still out in front).  Is this considered a raise attempt (albeit insufficient and must topped up to 2400)?  Or does the multiple same-denomination chip apply here (Rule 40)?

Example 3:

Blinds are 25/25.  Action folds around to the small blind.  The small blind is given an option to raise (he can only check or raise here).  The small blind tosses in a 100 chip.  Raise to 125?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 11:08:36 AM by K-Lo »

Nick C

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 09:16:47 AM »
K-Lo,

 Example #1 Raise

             #2 Raise

             #3 Raise

chet

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 10:09:40 AM »
Guys:

Example 1.  How in the world can this be a raise?  The SB is 300 and the BB is 600.  The SB has a single 500 chip in as his SB and when it is his turn he adds a single 100 chip making the total 600 (the amount of the BB).  This has to be a call since the minimum raise is to a total of 1200.

I agree that 2 and 3 should be a raise.

Chet

K-Lo

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 11:09:49 AM »
Guys:

Example 1.  How in the world can this be a raise?  The SB is 300 and the BB is 600.  The SB has a single 500 chip in as his SB and when it is his turn he adds a single 100 chip making the total 600 (the amount of the BB).  This has to be a call since the minimum raise is to a total of 1200.

I agree that 2 and 3 should be a raise.

Chet

Oops.  My bad.  I corrected the scenario.

Nick C

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 11:53:09 AM »
I don't know what was messed up, but from what I see it's still a raise.

chet

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 12:16:15 PM »
For the corrected example, I agree it is then a raise. 

Back to the original example, I need Nick to explain why adding a single 100 chip makes this a raise.  If the BB is 600 doesn't the minimum raise have to be to a total of 1200?  Isn't the SB adding 100 to his posted 500 (he has 200 change coming) for a total of 600 just a call?  What else can he do to call, wait until the dealer gives him his 200 change and then add the single 100 chip to the change for a total of 600?  Seems kind of ridiculous to me to have to go through all that.

Chet

Nick C

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2012, 02:11:15 PM »
Chet,

 I'm sorry, I don't know what the original was. It's been changed. If you are correct about the blinds being 300/600, then of course it is only a call. I've read K-Lo's question again and I see nothing wrong with my answer. The reason for the confusion is the lack of clarification from the players that insist on not saying what they're doing. IMO, if you don't remove the improper amount in the betting area, before putting the proper amount into the pot, you are adding to the total intended bet amount.
 When I'm dealing, I can tell you this, I have no problem clarifying the bet of player A before Player B acts.

Kerry DeVore

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Re: Use of oversized chip in the BB
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2012, 11:15:41 PM »
Thanks for the info. As for the continuing discussion I pretty much get about 90% of the same players all the time and I still get some arguments about if it is a call or raise. But I haven't got any since I posted a flyer on the wall of the place we play that says "1 oversized chip is a call." Guess you can "train" players how the house plays.
K G DE VORE