Author Topic: Dealer stacking deck during shuffle  (Read 3506 times)

Stuart Murray

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Dealer stacking deck during shuffle
« on: April 02, 2012, 03:58:15 AM »
Hi all,

I have a situation that has been reported to me. I would like your input As to best way to tackle the matter.  It's been reported that one of my player/dealers is stacking the deck during the shuffle by not correctly riffling, I am satisfied the information I have received is correct and I will be paying good attention to the player in order to catch them at it. Apparently the shuffle includes stacking the deck and Not dealing from the top to preferential players.

I am unsure if I should just wait till I know the deck is stacked and then stop the hand, turning all the cards and board over to inspect the integrity of the hand or have a quiet word with the player, or address the players in one go reminding them of the correct shuffle routine.

Any experience or advice would be appreciated.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

Nick C

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Re: Dealer stacking deck during shuffle
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 06:24:18 AM »
Stuart,
 Sorry to hear that you are having such problems. I know that passing the deal, and not pitching the cards are different from the way we do it. However, there are a few changes that you can insist on that should help you get through this.
.
          1) Insist that the cards are always facing away from the dealer, this includes gathering the cards prior to the first riffle and during the shuffle procedure.
 There is no reason for the dealer to know the identity of any card in the deck, or it's location.

          2) Changing the cards just prior to the next deal.
You can always say that you spotted a flawed card or something to that effect.

          3) Announce openly, to all players, there are rumors going around that correct shuffle procedure is not being followed by everyone. Any player at the table has a right to question an improper action before the cards are dealt.

    I know you would like to catch the culprit in the act. However, the harm done, and the time required "setting your trap" could prove more damaging for you cardroom,in the long run. Finally, if I suspected a player, I would find a way to nicely let them know that they are not welcome in your cardroom. If they're guilty, they will quietly go away with little complaint. 



Spence

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Re: Dealer stacking deck during shuffle
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 04:18:58 PM »
Hi all,

I have a situation that has been reported to me. I would like your input As to best way to tackle the matter.  It's been reported that one of my player/dealers is stacking the deck during the shuffle by not correctly riffling, I am satisfied the information I have received is correct and I will be paying good attention to the player in order to catch them at it. Apparently the shuffle includes stacking the deck and Not dealing from the top to preferential players.

I am unsure if I should just wait till I know the deck is stacked and then stop the hand, turning all the cards and board over to inspect the integrity of the hand or have a quiet word with the player, or address the players in one go reminding them of the correct shuffle routine.

Any experience or advice would be appreciated.

Regards
Stuart
You speak of "preferential players". Does that mean you have a team trying to cheat or is it just the delaing changing his own cards or one particular players?
Showdown rules could help. "Randomly" seating these players on different tables to try and catch who is part of the cheating team may help. All in all I am not that experienced with this because we don't have self dealt games. Even at our house games we don't allow the dealer to play. Best of luck Stuart

K-Lo

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Re: Dealer stacking deck during shuffle
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 10:13:21 PM »
Hi Stuart:

I think Nick's advice here is very sound.

There is no requirement that you have to "prove" that the player is cheating. And I think it would end up looking very bad on you if you thought that you caught the person in the act, but the cards that were revealed didn't make the cheat look obvious.  If you really are satisfied that the information that you have received is correct, I think I'd rather be inclined to follow Nick's approach and just suspend them - why waste time.

If that is not practical, I also would consider reminding all players at the start of each tournament that even though they may not be professionally-trained shufflers or dealers, there is a minimum standard that they must adhere to, to play.  This means gathering cards facing away as Nick mentions, shuffling using a low profile, keeping the deck parallel to the table at all times, cutting the deck, etc.  You should also make it clear that not dealing from the top of the deck, or handling the cards in any way that does not ensure a random deal is considered cheating, and is so serious that players even suspected of doing so will be suspended from play at the TDs sole discretion, without proof.  My feeling is that the fear of being caught (especially since everybody will be alert to look out for it once you announce it, and peer policing will kick in) should be enough to deter most players, at least in the short-term.   The downside of doing this though, is that the overall mood will likely change if people start getting paranoid that everyone else is trying to cheat them!  That's why sometimes, it may be best just to suspend the person you suspect and not waste time.

Depending on how bad the players are at shuffling, I would even consider insisting that players (especially those at the tables where you have the "suspected" player) perform a thorough wash before every hand.  At least 5-7 seconds, and the dealer must demonstrate to everyone at the table that a thorough, random wash has been performed.  This will slow down the game, but you could just chalk it up to certain players not being as proficient at shuffling as they could be, and you simply want to ensure a fair deal. 

A difficult situation for sure -- that's why I'm not a big fan of self-dealt games.