Author Topic: Betting line  (Read 10449 times)

Nick C

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 06:11:41 AM »
Spence,
 I don't know why you are so defensive :)...I like the line, too! I guess I have a tough time with the release part of the betting rule, with a line or without. If you move forward with chips they should ALL be commited to the pot. I think it's much easier to determine, and justify the intent with a line. I like the betting/muck line.
 I was referring to the unclear moves that could leave the action of players to the discretion of the dealer, or the floor, because there is no line.

W0lfster

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2012, 10:57:26 AM »
If we are talking about using a betting line then IMO yes I agree with Jack's interpretation of the rule up to a point. What I am still debating is whether the official TDA rule is forward motion binding? Or release of chips beyond the line binding? I like the forward motion rule personally but Jack seems to think otherwise.

K-Lo

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2012, 01:26:15 PM »
So much confusion...  Should we have:

a)  chip release, no betting line
b)  forward motion, no betting line
c)  chip release & betting line
d)  forward motion & betting line  ...?

I doubt I will see a consensus reached on this issue in my lifetime.  So for now, we just have... uncertainty.

Nick C

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2012, 06:29:08 PM »
Okay, here's my vote: Forward motion & Betting Line with fixed distance from the rail of at least 10 inches.
Nick C

chet

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 07:29:38 AM »
OK, now I will stick my sense in here, if I have any left:

If the tables have a betting line, any and all chips that cross the line are in the pot.  If the amount of chips exceeds the current bet, but are insufficient for a full raise, the player must add sufficient chips for a full raise.  Same thing if the chips don't meet the amount of the current bet, player has to add chips.  Release is NOT considered, only crossing the line.

If there is no betting line, then I go with release of chips after forward motion.  Chip release must be a single drop, non of this drip, drip, drip, unless the player has verbally announced the amount.

Chet

Spence

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2012, 10:12:50 PM »
Spence,
 I don't know why you are so defensive :)...I like the line, too! I guess I have a tough time with the release part of the betting rule, with a line or without. If you move forward with chips they should ALL be commited to the pot. I think it's much easier to determine, and justify the intent with a line. I like the betting/muck line.
 I was referring to the unclear moves that could leave the action of players to the discretion of the dealer, or the floor, because there is no line.
Those players are angling and should be dealt with in that accord. I would give them a one hand penalty then progressively more rather than commit the chips to the pot. In this way I am protecting the people in the hand from a bet that may cause them to lose chips. I don't like it when rules dictates that a player must bet, then they suck out and the victim loses chips along with his right to fair play. I think you're right in that I am being a bit defensive... ;)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 10:14:12 PM by Spence »

Nick C

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 07:48:34 AM »
I've really enjoyed this discusion. Betting line or no betting line? It is very much like the automated shufflers...some rooms have them and most don't. I don't like them, but I know they're here to stay.

JasperToo

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 08:54:50 AM »
I like what spence was saying about release of chips over the betting line.  I think that is one of the problems with the line, folks will take more chips over than they intend on betting.

btw, forward motion, according to RROP, only exist in LIMIT poker where your forward motion causes another player to act.  This is because of the speed of action that limit generally takes.  No-limit has not such rule in regards to forward motion.  "Chips released" is the only rule for betting.   (going to have to agree that the "drip drip drip" should be dealt with). 

That funny trick of pushing a pyramid out and then flopping out one chip for a call is even easier to pull off with a betting line.  You can't have a betting line and then say "he pushed all his chips forward" if they don't cross the line.

I suppose in the end, we can get used to whatever rules are being applied regarding any line but the fact that we will never see lines on all tables or the fact that the rules will hardly ever be the same among rooms, we should stick with chips released.

meh....

Nick C

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Re: Betting line
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 10:52:51 AM »
JasperToo,
 There should be no difference in the action of players with a line or without. IMO, the only difference is the line as an obvious gauge, where judgement of the dealer (or an opposing player) might raise the question of whether a bet was made, or not. As far as the release, would you require a player that is pushing chips forward and removing his hands as a release? If so, how far? When I used the betting line, players knew that a forward motion (where even one chip hit the line), committed all of the chips being pushed. Educate the players and things go real smooth, and contrary to what many say, it actually would speed up the game.

 I would like to ask a question of all of the TD's, and any cardroom employees that play from time to time, when you are interested in calling a bet, do you toss your hand away and try to grab it back before the dealer mucks it? Do you grab chips with both hands and then cut out a couple for your bet?..I don't think any of us do. So why should player's get away with it? Pushing a bet forward (when it's your turn to act), or tossing your hand face down, or announcing a fold, or a call, or a raise is binding, period. In my not so humble opinion, that's how I see it.