Author Topic: player loses his/her money and rebuys?  (Read 9419 times)

W0lfster

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player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« on: December 30, 2011, 06:04:15 AM »
Hi there, was just wondering on what happens in a cash game if a player goes out are they forced to sit out for one hand even though the request for a rebuy was made during the hand the player went out on? Or can the player request for a rebuy after the hand and immediately be dealt cards? Thank you :)

Nick C

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 10:05:03 AM »
Wolfster,
 In a cash game a player can request a rebuy and be dealt in the next hand as long as the amount is in compliance with the table stakes rules for that game and the amount is announced before he sees any cards. The player is said to be "playing behind" if the requested amount is on-route from the cage and not from the table bank. If no amount is stated before the player sees his cards only the minimum buy-in for that game is allowed to play.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 10:07:04 AM by Nick C »

W0lfster

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 01:37:37 PM »
when you say playing behind what do you mean by this? Im confused because surely with no chips how can you play? There are situations when you wont get your chips in time for the next hand for the rebuy.

K-Lo

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 02:48:10 PM »
For example, if the player busts, and he intends to buy in for, say another $200 (assume that he is allowed to buy in for that amount), he can play with the $200 "behind" for the next hand(s) while waiting for the chip runner/floor to bring his chips to the table. 

This means that the dealer will keep track of the total amount of any bets/calls that the player makes even though he doesn't have any chips in front of him, and when the chips actually do arrive, the dealer can then take the amount that the player owes the pot from those new chips. 

Practically, the dealer may use chips already in the pot to help keep track of what the player owes to the pot.  For example, if the player calls pre-flop and then calls a bet on the flop, with total bets equalling $20, the dealer can set aside $20 worth of chips from the main pot in a separate stack just to help him remember that the player owes the pot $20 when the chips finally arrive.

 

Nick C

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 03:34:22 PM »
Wolfster,
  A player wants in, you deal him in. Cheques (chips) coming from the dealer is simple, but when a chip runner is needed, it is a priority to get back to the table with the players cheques ASAP. If the players chips are not back in time, he usually borrows a stack from a neighbor until the runner returns, (It's not something that we advertise, but every poker room does it), or the dealer will take the amount that is owed from the pot and keep it in front of the waiting player. The player is "light" that amount. When his cheques arrive he will deposit what he owes and play continues.

 I'll give you an example of what might occur at a table. The game is limit hold'em $3 and $6. The min buy-in is $30. Player on the BB goes all-in and loses. He reaches into his pocket and takes out a $100 bill, tosses it to the dealer and says, deal me in," I'd like $40 in chips, please." If the dealer can make his change, he will. If the dealer is not able to change the $100 he will call out to the chip runner, or whoever is responsible, "PLAYER'S CHEQUES ON TABLE 16, FORTY WHITE AND SIXTY SOFT!" When the runner returns the player must put $60 back in his pocket. The methods I've mentioned are designed to keep the game going without slowing it down too much.

 While I was typing K-Lo offered his excellent examples. I don't know if this is practiced anymore but we used to play "on the piece" back in the old days, that is, we would take a large bill like a $100 and drag money from the pot and put it on the bill to indicate how much was owed. That was a bad practice because there were times that players would fold and take back their $100 bill along with the $30 in cash still on the piece! :o Not a recommended practice. I will say that it was always done in house games back then.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 03:49:41 PM by Nick C »

W0lfster

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 04:50:31 PM »
Thank you for your responses its much appreciated. However, I still have queries on the term BEHIND, sorry but it just doesnt sink in. When you say K-LO says 200 behind do you mean the player is all in but kept his 200 behind Ive seen this in high stakes poker where all in doesnt actually mean all in, the really low chips are regarded as tipping rather than playable or is this just my imagination? Or do you mean say I bet 200 without actually putting any money in? If the dealer is to make a record of what the player owes shouldnt this be owed to the player that shouldve eart the chips? I say this because in my mind it isnt fair if another hand commences and the player has still not got his chips yet. The player that shouldve won more chips couldnt because of the absence of chips from the player who didnt have chips at the time when he/she requested a rebuy. This would allow another player to win those chips if they are just left in the pot or am I missing the point? :S :S :S

Spence

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 05:30:58 PM »
"Playing behind" simply means without chips physically in front of that player. That player will verbalize all calls or bets and the dealer will track how much he owes until  the actual chips arrive. It's like allowing cash to play until the end of the hand. You can't cut a $100 bill into a bunch of tiny pieces to bet so we say "Playing behind". That player gets his $100 in play without actually having the chips to bet. That's why everything has to be verbalized by the player and total amount owed tracked by the dealer. When the chips do arrive the dealer will request the total amount owed to the pot (or if another hand has past to the previous winning player) and the player continues as normal and is no longer playing behind. The phrase "playing behind" itself is confusing and there is probably a better term for it but it is the norm and used throughout the western world.

W0lfster

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 05:59:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply Spence, now when the chips do arrive are the chips that the player owes put into the player just before a new hand is dealt?

Are the chips that the player nows owes to the pot giving at all to the previous winners or are they just put into the pot to be awarded for the current hand in progress?

Thank you :)

W0lfster

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 06:00:52 PM »
sorry meant to say put into the pot before a new hand is dealt. :D

Spence

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 07:01:10 PM »
All chips would be given to the winners that are owed any moneys. One clarifying factor here. The player who is playing behind CAN win the hand. They are eligible to receive a hand and are allowed to bet or even go all-in. Just remember that they are only able to call or play for any moneys that they ahve declared they are playing behind for. As per my example before of $100, they would be able to bet or call all bets up to $100 and then would be declared all-in. They are able to win any portion of pots that they have put money into and all regular poker rules apply to them. The only difference is that they do not physically have chips in front of them to bet.

W0lfster

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 08:30:34 AM »
Arrr I see so are they allowed to request the maximum buy in amount even when playing behind?

chet

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 03:16:59 PM »
Yes, they can "play behind" (aka Rebuy) up to the maximum buyin for the table at which the player is sitting.  One thing I want to make sure you are perfectly clear upon is that, unless the player "playing behind" wins the hand, that player MUST settle up with the player(s) to whom the pot was awarded.  If the chip runner is old and slow (like me), a second hand MAY be in progress before the chip runner arrives.  My recommendation in that case is that play for that hand be stopped, and the chips owed for the prior hand be settled up, and then the current hand can proceed. 

Chet

Spence

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2011, 05:10:09 PM »
I disagree with Chet on this one about stopping play. Normally when I was dealing under circumstances where a chip runner was unduly delayed we simply broke the rules and asked someone else at the table to lend chips until the runner came back. I wouldn't ever want to stop earning tips. We all gotta eat!

chet

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Re: player loses his/her money and rebuys?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 08:22:55 PM »
Spence:  I don't disagree.

My experience in several venues where I have been playing and a chip runner does not return "timely", is that the dealer will BRIEFLY stop play of the hand only long enough to get the prior hand winner 'paid'.  It shouldn't take more than 5 or 10 seconds at most.  I wouldn't think of any longer delay being necessary. 

That said, I again state that I don't disagree with your position, but I don't see how such a brief delay should impact a dealer toke.

Chet