POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General

Player not aware of action / no chips pushed into pot

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tgren:
This happened in a NL Holdem Tournament recently:
A player in early position was first to bet and one more player called. The original raiser was wearing a mp3 player while playing.
After the flop, the original raiser bets a pot-sized bet and is sitting motionless and looking towards the felt inside the circle for the other player.
After no visible action and over a minute passed, the motionless player is requesting clock.
The countdown is completed and the second player is getting the pot.

When he takes off his headphones and asking what is going on, the dealer stated that the other player said "All-in" and that the clock was for the original betting player. No chips were ever moved towards the centre of the table, nor were there any All-in badges in play. The floor-person was called over and ruled in favor for the person who announced All in verbally but never moved any chips.

Was this correct move from the house and if not, how should the house have dealt with the situation? ???

pokerfish:
I am sorry but I am not clear on the situation. If you are saying that mp3 guy was facing action, had the clock called on him, and didn't act within his time allowed, then yes, his hand is dead and the other player gets the pot. It is his responsibility to know the action and if wearing headphones prevents this, then he shouldn't wear them. He certainly should have come up for air sooner than when the pot was awarded away from him. He did not protect his own rights and actions. IMO, the time has expired and his hand is dead. If this isn't the situation, please restate it and we'll see what we can come up with, ok?
Jan Fisher
Cardplayercruises.com

Stuart Murray:
Ditto Jan's Reply,

The player who made the original action failed to keep up with action at the table and it his own responsibility to keep abreast of current action.

Regards
Stuart

tgren:
Well, it is a challenge to the rule #30 for raising that a raising action always have to be made by presenting chips into the pot, not just a verbal mention about the all-in action. As an observer of this, I felt it was unfair ruling towards the guy with the MP3 player as he also mentioned that he didnt see any action made on the table. Maybe the rule 30 is not binding players to actually push chips into the pot? Many places have a rule that at least a significant chipstack (larger than the opponent) has to be physically moved into the pot. However, if this would be ruled in the favour of the original betting guy with the mp3 player, how would this ever be resolved?! I think it is a fair comment that chips has to be moved into the pot or the action is not completed by the other player but I may be wrong. It was definitely easier for the house to rule for the guy who only made a verbal call for an all-in.

chet:
Tgren:  Rule #30 provides for three different methods of raising:  "...(1) placing the full amount in the pot in one motion; or (2) verbally declaring the full amount prior to the initial placement of chips into the pot; or (3) verbally declaring "raise" prior to the placement of the amount to call into the pot and them completing the action with one additional motion...."

I did not see the action in question, but I submit there are times when requiring a player to push their entire stack into the pot is impractical.  We have seen many events on TV where a player has stacks and stacks and stacks of chips (which is another separate problem in my opinion), I do not believe it is practical to require a player to push 10, 20, 30 or more stacks forward when he/she has made a verbal statement heard by all except the player listening to his/her "tunes".  My personal opinion is that as long as the player made a verbal "all-in" that was clear to everyone else, the problem is with the player not paying attention. 

Hope this helps!

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