One chip raise ?

[DocWilson]

Situation :


Player A : makes call of 20
Player B : raises to 40

Action is folded back to player A

Player A now throws one chip of 100 (next to his earlier call of 20) without saying anything ... (he wanted a raise ..)
Using the one chip-rule being call only ?

Do you rule : Call 40 or Raise  120

Thank you.

[Nick C]

Call......If he wanted to raise he should say raise and state the amount. What would you rule if the player did remove his 20? Would you consider his raise to 100? The answer is NO....It's the same situation. How do we know if they don't tell us? It is a CALL. This violates more than TDA Rule #40 Multiple Chip Betting. It is also governed by TDA Rule #37..  Players must learn to make their intentions clear.

[chet]

Nick: 

This is a CASH GAME, TDA Rules do not apply. 

Doc Wilson:

This situation is a perfect example of why each and every room, casino, etc., that allows cash games need to develop House Rules.  If you want, I suppose you could include some or all TDA Rules (some obviously apply only to tournaments) in your House Rules, but you need to develop those ASAP!

Chet

[JasperToo]

It's a call.  TDA rules don't apply but the one chip rule is an RROP rule as well and applies to cash games.  Or as Chet suggests there is the possibility that "house" rules could be different and do apply.

[Nick C]

Chet,
 I would say that most rules of poker are the same for cash and tournament play, and this is one of them.

[Desi]

Nick: 

This is a CASH GAME, TDA Rules do not apply. 

Doc Wilson:

This situation is a perfect example of why each and every room, casino, etc., that allows cash games need to develop House Rules.  If you want, I suppose you could include some or all TDA Rules (some obviously apply only to tournaments) in your House Rules, but you need to develop those ASAP!

Chet

We use the same rule here for tournaments and cash games, TDA rule #39, which would make it a call.

Just out of curiosity, are there many people who use a different rule here for their cash games as opposed to their tournament rule? It could be very confusing for a player when they bust out of a tournament, having played by this rule, to then join a cash game which has a different rule for the same situation.

[Nick C]

Desi,
 I think your question was already answered on this thread. The best thing for you to do is look at all of the rules for cash games (Robert's Rules of Poker) and compare them with the TDA Rules and decide what is different. Basic rules of etiquette are the same. Acting in turn, verbal declarations, check-raise, and the single oversized chip rule are just a few that are the same in tournaments and cash games. There are other rules that pertain to tournaments only. For example; assigned seating, dealing players in that are absent from the table, blinding-off absent players, no re-entry after an all-in loss (unless re-buys are allowed), and you can't cash-out when you're winning 10,000.
 I'm sure there are other differences that we can come up with but, any poker player should be able to adjust to, and understand the differences between cash and tournaments. It's poker!

[W0lfster]

Are you saying Nick that it does not matter that the 20 is there it is still a call? Would it make any difference if the player took his 20 back and put the 100 chip in?

[Nick C]

Andy,
 I answered your question on my first reply. Here it is again.

"What would you rule if the player did remove his 20? Would you consider his raise to 100? The answer is NO....It's the same situation. How do we know if they don't tell us? It is a CALL."

 I would still not allow that action to be considered a raise. It's a call. Players will learn, if their intent was to raise, that announcing the amount is best.

[Spence]

Andy,
 I answered your question on my first reply. Here it is again.

"What would you rule if the player did remove his 20? Would you consider his raise to 100? The answer is NO....It's the same situation. How do we know if they don't tell us? It is a CALL."

 I would still not allow that action to be considered a raise. It's a call. Players will learn, if their intent was to raise, that announcing the amount is best.

I'm with Nick on this one. We need to constantly be training our delaers to train the players. If there is something specific that we want to see in betting or raising or such we must make it clear to the players what we want in any particular card room.
In our room we enforce that we want players when calling raises to say only their total. If a player bets 20 and the next player says "raise 100" and puts 120 in we always make them put only 100 in the pot. Even if their intention was to aise 100 more we always want or players to call total bets. We've had to train them to do this. ESPECIALLY in tournaments.

[Stuart Murray]

it's a call, under any rules which are modernised. Under our cash game rules, had he removed the 20 and then threw it back in with the 100 it would be 120 total.

Regards
Stuart

[Stuart Murray]

Kendalizor, there is no grey area with this one, the $20 is already in 'the pot', even though it is still in front of the player, a single $100 chip tossed in is a single chip, the $20 already in front of the player cannot and must not be used to argue multiple chips have been used.  It's easier over here mind, as we sweep everything into the middle before the cards are dealt (blinds + antes) so there is nothing but action in front of players then.

Regards
Stuart

[Kendalizor]

Oh, yep your right Stuart.