Author Topic: Miscalling hand  (Read 2889 times)

alex

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Miscalling hand
« on: September 04, 2011, 04:09:59 PM »
Hi everyone, I had this situation last night ,
 2 players heads up , player a bet on the turn , called by player b & then they both check the river card , player A asked player B " do u have the 6 " player B answered " yes, I have it " , then player A fold his hand into the muck ( not retrievable ) .player B then show 5 7 hearts.
The board was : 6 2 8 6 10 .( 6  8 of hearts )
The supervisor gave the pot to player B but he was warned & penalized 30 min out of the table.
Any different between cash games & tournament regarding this situation.
Any other suggestions . Thanks for ur help
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:28:28 PM by alex »

Spence

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Re: Miscalling hand
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 06:44:45 PM »
This one seems pretty cut and dry to me. It is the players responsibility to ensure that they have a losing hand before folding. It's far too easy for the player to say "yes I have a six" then turn his hand over, seem exasperated, and say "oh sorry I thought I did". It's tough to rule in these situations. We don't want to be so harsh that we turn away our players but we need to be firm to stop players from intentionally tampering with the integrity of the game. In this situation though I don't think a penalty is warranted. First off this is a cash game I presume from the fact that we are in the cash game category, so a 30 min penalty only shorts the table and and doesn't really do much to stop the player from doing it again. A warning is best with a stress on the fact that continually breaking house rules will have you be barred for the remainder of the day. Just to clear one last thing up, player A is supposed to show first. The dealer could have helped the situation telling player A to open.

DCJ001

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Re: Miscalling hand
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 10:14:20 PM »
First of all, I do not trust anyone at the poker table. If someone declares a hand, I ask to see it.

Also, when the player said that he had a six, he actually had two of them (on the board).

Some rooms have a rule that kills the hand of a player who misdeclares a hand at showdown, apparently with the intent to deceive an opponent.

“Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot.”

And, lastly, the player who folded did a stupid thing by not just tabling his hand, or folding after seeing a better hand.

Stuart Murray

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Re: Miscalling hand
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 06:31:42 AM »
yip,

ditto spence and dcj001 responses, I also ditto spences response that a 30minute penalty does little for the game, in cash game I either a) warn or b) exclude, nothing inbetween, in tournaments i penalise. giving penalties at a cash game just shortens the rake.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

Nick C

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Re: Miscalling hand
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 11:40:59 AM »
alex,
 Part of the problem is the order of showdown was not followed. When Player A asked Player B if he had a six, the dealer should have told him (player A) that he must show his hand first. Period. That was the first mistake. Player A made his next mistake by not protecting his hand. He was completely at fault for mucking his hand before seeing the opponents hand.

DCJ001

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Re: Miscalling hand
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 02:45:14 PM »
Everyone posting in this thread realizes that this is a cash game hand being discussed. Right?