Author Topic: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards  (Read 5676 times)

MikeB

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The TDA received the following inquiry regarding rules in several different situations. These questions are probably on alot of people's minds so we're posting it here for everyone to benefit from.
*************** Begin Questions ****************

1) In cash, no limit hold em' can a player show his/her hand?    Let me give you two scenarios.
 
A) Four players in the hand. Pre flop- Two players limp, Small blind calls, big blind rasies, next to act pushes all in, and then turns their hand over. Next to act ask for a ruling. What should the dealer do? What are all the players options?
 
B) Heads up- first to act makes a bet. Next to act flips one card over and ask if that card worries him/her. What's first to act options? Also what's does the dealer need to do?
 
2) p.s. how much can player talk about his\her hand? I know a player can't tell what cards they have/had. I just want to know how much talking is allowed in a cash game.
 
Sry....I know it's a lot:) !
********************* End questions ******************
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 09:17:05 AM by MikeB »

Nick C

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 03:55:39 PM »
The first scenario (A) is a bad situation because there are other players that might be affected by the all-in player exposing his hand prematurely. The fact that this took place pre-flop makes it even worse, because there are three more betting rounds to follow. Obviously the all-in player is at a disadvantage because his cards are exposed but, he has also put other players at a risk of loosing money because the cards exposed could give too much information to the remaining players. The dealer should call the floor, and expect one of the following decisions; #1 Give the remaining players the oportunity to call the all-in bet and continue to play the hand out, or #2 Allow the players to call the all-in and declare themselves in for the pot with no further betting. Cash game players should not be exempt from punishment. Continued violations of rules of poker etiquette could lead to removal from the game, and a "vacation" from the room, for a lenth of time that management deems appropriate. (B) IMO, head to head action does not affect other players so.....let them show their cards. The dealer might call the floor because there just might be more shennanigins to follow. The player with the exposed hand will have to decide what he wants to do. Options to the first player to act will depend on what action is taken by the opposing player (that showed one card).
 The next question; How much can a player talk about his/her hand? As much as the other players will allow. Management might have something to say if the game is slowed down too much, or it offends serious players to the point of them quiting the game. Head to head, not so bad. Multiple players creates more problems. There's a reason players receive "hole cards," they are "private cards" and showing them, or talking about them, is highly unethical.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 05:27:16 AM by Nick C »

pdiddy729

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 03:24:35 PM »
In Scenario number 1, A lot of card rooms will kill that hand just because it was more then 2 players in the hand.

Nick C

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 07:51:24 AM »
pdiddy,
 I'm not sure I'm following what you are saying. Which hand are you going to kill?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 10:08:10 PM by Nick C »

Spence

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2011, 07:01:17 PM »
1A. If a first offense I would give the player a rather strong penalty, mainly due to the fact that the action on the hand is still open and opeing his cards can effect betting decisions. If this player has already had a warning about it, I kill the hand and return any uncalled portion. (if any remains)
1B. Our dealers are taught to allow some angling but only if both parties involved. If one player is asking a lot of questions or making a lot of statement s and the other player is not angling back then the are taught to put a stop to it. If both parties are actively trying to gain information from the other then it is allowed as long as it is not affecting the speed of the game.
2. This one states that it is in a cash game. I tried to be equitable to both cash and tournament in my answer so I defer back to my answer in 1B.

brandoroc

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 05:49:01 AM »
Sorry I'm late in replying back. Thanks for the time and effort answering my questions.

You'd really kill the first hand? I understand a penalty but killing a live hand?


Brian Vickers

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Re: Revealing cards prematurely, showing cards, talking about cards
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 08:24:38 AM »

A) Four players in the hand. Pre flop- Two players limp, Small blind calls, big blind rasies, next to act pushes all in, and then turns their hand over. Next to act ask for a ruling. What should the dealer do? What are all the players options?
To me this realistically isn't so bad, although I do agree that it warrants a warning.  What's on the plus side here is that all players have an equal opportunity to react to this information.  To me it would be much more grievous if player A went all-in, player B called then showed Player C calls and shows his hand before player D had a chance to act.  The difference is that only Player D has a chance to react to this information, which is unfair to players A and B.  That being said, the ruling in my cardroom would be a warning for first offense followed by asking the player to leave for the day should he do it again.  I would never kill the hand.  Ever.
B) Heads up- first to act makes a bet. Next to act flips one card over and ask if that card worries him/her. What's first to act options? Also what's does the dealer need to do?
Heads up in a cash game if one player exposes his hand the dealer should do nothing except clarify with the the player who turned his cards over if he is folding or not, as it can sometimes be unclear.  Otherwise, as long as both players understand that it is not a muck, the players are free to do what they want heads up.. at least until someone calls the clock.
 
2) p.s. how much can player talk about his\her hand? I know a player can't tell what cards they have/had. I just want to know how much talking is allowed in a cash game
heads up, anything goes, multi-way pot there should be no talking that discloses the content of a hand or could affect another player's equity in a hand.