Author Topic: Buy the Button?  (Read 14224 times)

chet

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 07:45:32 AM »
Andy:

As has been said several times, the ONLY time you can "Buy the Button" is if the vacant or empty seat would be the Small Blind.  In other words, the player who had the Big Blind on the just completed hand either busted or decided to leave the table. 

The ONLY way I can see an empty seat being open between the Small Blind and the Big Blind would be if the UTG player on the just completed hand, who would be the Big Blind on the next hand, busted or left the table and the "Buy the Button" process DOES NOT APPLY.

The short answer is NO.

Spence

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2011, 05:20:42 PM »
Between the SB and BB? Wouldn't that just make you the BB?

chet

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2011, 06:38:36 PM »
There are times where the UTG player leaves the table.  That results in the seat immediately to the left of the SB being vacant and the BB skips that seat and moves to the seat 2 positions to the left of the SB.  If a player came to that seat BEFORE the start of the deal, he could post the BB, the player to his immediate left would pull his chips back or he could straddle (if allowed by house rules) and would be the UTG for the current hand. 

This circumstance is NOT part of the Buy the Button process, in fact it is a rather common occurrence at least where I play, it is.

W0lfster

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 09:16:46 AM »
Chet, what you have said is correct but I am confused as to why you are even allowed to play between the BB and the SB. Most places wont allow you to play between the BB and the Button altogether unless you have the buy the button in your house rules.

Are you saying then that if you could buy the button in a casino and the example you gave, you post between the BB and SB making the BB the UTG can you buy the button next hand? Or are you the button?

chet

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 03:21:28 PM »
Andy asked:  "Are you saying then that if you could buy the button in a casino and the example you gave, you post between the BB and SB making the BB the UTG can you buy the button next hand? Or are you the button?"

When you "Buy the Button" you are both the BB and the SB ON THAT HAND, you will be the Button ON THE NEXT hand.  You are buying the right to have the button on the next hand.  With the Dead Button Rule, as I understand it, a player can NEVER have the button and be required to post a blind ON THE SAME HAND.

Does that clear that up?

As to your confusion in the first paragraph of your last post:  If the house you are playing in DOES NOT have a "Buy the Button" rule, you can NEVER enter the game (play a hand) in between the blinds (either one) and the button.  You MUST wait for the button to pass before you can play a hand.  If the dealer deals you hole cards in that situation, the hand should be declared dead and mucked immediately.

Any more question?

W0lfster

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2011, 05:17:56 PM »
No Chet, no more questions and thank you for clearing things up for me and thanks for the sarcasm at the end. Its ok now

W0lfster

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2012, 04:06:19 PM »
Sorry to bring this topic up again but what happens on the flop turn and river with the player who elected to buy the button? Does he/she go first or does the player to the left of him/her. I know that the UTG is the 1st player left of the player who bought the button (posted both small and big blinds) goes first pre flop.

Thanks :)

chet

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 05:18:37 PM »
Andy you are making this more complicated than it is.  In a hand where "Buy the Button" applies, there is NO difference in the order of play than would be normal.  Action for the Flop, Turn and River always will begin with the first player with a live hand to the left of the player with the button.

Chet

K-Lo

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 09:51:18 PM »
Andy:

"Buying the Button" means that this player is posting BOTH the small and big blinds (for the current hand).

Let me give you an example:

Last Hand --

Seat 1 is the buttoin
Seat 2 is the SB
Seat 3 is the BB
Seat 4 is the UTG, etc.,etc.,

Seat 4 goes all in

It is folded around to Seat 3, the BB who calls the all in, Seat 4 has Seat 3 covered.  The hand plays out and Seat 3 is busted and leaves the table.

Next Hand --

Seat 2 is the button
Seat 3 is vacant, but a new player has been assigned and is on his way to the table
Seat 4 posts the BB, etc, etc.

Upon arrival, before the dealer starts dealing any cards, the new player in Seat 3 announces he wants to "Buy the Button".  The dealer says you have to post both blinds and the player says OK and does so.  Seat 4 pulls his BB back.  Seat 2 is still the button, Seat 3 posts both blinds and Seat 4 is now the UTG.  The hand plays out.

Next Hand --  

Seat 3 is the button
Seat 4 is the SB
Seat 5 is the BB

I hope this clears things up for you.


Chet... is your example right under the dead button rule?  Now even I'm confused.  When seat 3 was vacant, seat 4 was going to post the BB, and with the button in Seat 2, there would be only one blind.  If before the start of the hand, a new player entered seat 3 and bought the button, of course, seat 4 would take his BB back.  But then on the next hand, wouldn't we then have seat 4 post a BB, with seat 3 having the button, and there being no small?  Otherwise, in this particular situation, we wouldn't have a 'dead button' because seat 4 would miss his BB entirely.

chet

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2012, 03:22:02 AM »
K-Lo:  The way it has always been explained to me is that the player "Buying the Button" is paying the BB for the player that would otherwise be responsible for it.  In my example which you quoted below, the player in seat 3 is the BB and busts out, leaving the table.  Without the Buy the Button rule, normally that seat would remain vacant for two hands, until the Button passes to seat 4. If a new player shows up for that seat he has to wait. 

With the Buy the Button rule, that new player can post both blinds, the BB is live and the SB is dead, get a hand and on the next hand get the button.  In effect, the new player has posted the BB for the player in seat 4.  On the next hand, the player in seat 3 gets the button, seat 4 is the SB and the BB is in seat 5.

So yes, the player in seat 4 gets a free BB round.  With this rule in effect, there is no "dead button" as would normally be the case.

Anyhow, this is how it has always been explained to me.

Chet

K-Lo

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2012, 06:18:24 AM »
Chet:

I can concur with everything you've said up until the conclusion that "there is no 'dead button' as would normally be the case".  You could be right but I can't see how someone could ever miss having to post a BB in a 'dead button' movement.  Isn't that kind of the point of not having a moving button?  

I have always understood that "Buying the Button" is a new player paying the BB for the player that would otherwise be responsible for it, but in the 'classic' sense, it is when the new player is taking a vacant seat between what would otherwise be a player posting the SB and the button.  So, it would actually makes more sense to me in a no-SB situation, that the new player would either: skip one hand, then buy the button (assuming he is not permitted to post on the button), and then play would go on as normal; or that the player would be permitted to wait a hand then post on the button, or wait two hands if not permitted to post on the button; or that the player would be permitted to play immediately but post a SB; or that the new player could simply post the BB and we still have no SB.  All of these make more sense to me than allowing the new player to buy the button and then having an existing player miss a BB.

I have a lot less experience with cash than tourneys so of course I will defer to you guys, but the example is not making sense to me right now.  I apologize for rehashing this.  Appreciate the feedback.

K
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 06:28:36 AM by K-Lo »

Nick C

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2012, 07:25:01 AM »
I'm more confused now than I was before. I'm trying to find the info that I had on buying the button (back when I thought I knew what I was talking about). The only thing that makes sense now is having two big blinds and a dead small. I don't believe that the player in seat 4 (in the example given) can escape posting a BB.

Nick C

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 02:46:09 PM »
Okay, I've waited long enough :D, does anyone have the answer to my unanswered question about the player that would be posting the BB if the intervening player did not buy the button? Look at my example above. both blinds are eliminated on the last hand, a player is seated in the SB position and wants to buy the button...he will post a dead small and a live BB. My question is, when does the Player that was in line to post the big, actually do so? Am I correct that there will be 2 BB's? I thought that I had this figured out but it is getting a bit unclear when multiple player's are eliminated.

K-Lo

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2012, 03:02:56 PM »
I don't understand why we wouldn't just have the new player just post one BB (no small).  Next hand, he posts SB, and the player that would have posted the BB last time had the new player not arrived, wiill now post the BB.  If the new player didn't arrive, there would have been one hand with no small blind anyways, so what's the difference between having the new player post the single blind if the original BB was going to post a single blind anyways?

*sigh* Sometimes I think players want to "buy the button" just to show off that they know the phrase, even in situations where it makes no sense to do so.

Nick C

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Re: Buy the Button?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 04:17:53 PM »
Okay, so here we are one year after Wolfster made the original post and nobody knows how it works, and that includes the links that suggest the answers! The only thing that makes sense to me is having 2 BB's on the first hand.