Author Topic: Moving to a new table  (Read 5828 times)

chet

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2011, 01:53:14 PM »
Brian:  Does it make any difference if the move is:

A) at the direction of the house (perhaps to balance tables or a must move situation), or
B) at the request of the player (perhaps to start a new table or just to move to a different table when his request for a table change comes up)?

I know that if I was called to a new table and a player moved to that new table from an existing table with considerably more than the max buy-in I am allowed, I would just get up and leave.  Why bother having a table maximum buy-in, there is no point.

Chet

Nick C

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 05:43:00 AM »
Chet,
 All I could find, pretty much confirms what I said about the minimum buy-in. The interesting part is the player that exceeds the max. I will quote the LVH Poker Rule Book: A.1 (in part) A new player to a table must comply with the buy-in requirement for that game even if he has come from the same size and type of game, unless the house has transferred him from a similar game which has broken down, has the limit or type of game changed, or some related reason. There is no mention of the max, but it does state that the player must comply with the buy-in requirements for that game....so, that might be something that would need to be addressed by house rules.

Brian Vickers

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
When I first came to my current casino, they had the policy that if a player requested to move he couldn't bring over more than the max buy, but if the table broke down and combined he had to bring them all with him. 
First off, this casino is in a state that has recently legalized poker, so you won't find very many "ethical" "etiquette following" players around here for no other reason than they didn't know any better.  At first, players wanted to just take chips out of play after they built their $60 buy-in up to $300 and were now playing scared.  Once they found out they couldn't do that, they just started asking for a table change request and were allowed to freely pocket their winnings and keep playing.

To me, this is very bad for the house because it's less total money in play in the room.  The less money in play in the room, the sooner your games will break down as the night goes on.  From a player's view, I don't want some guy winning a huge pot off me, move tables and then even if I move tables too that money is no longer in play and I have no chance to win it back.  Are we really that concerned with a player coming to a table with a large stack?  The poker players I know always seem to want to play on a table with more money and are constantly asking for table changes if their table has too little money on it.  Going south is a huge no-no, and I am strongly against any rule that helps facilitate this.


On a related note:  Some rooms already have similar rules, but I am also in favor of implementing a rule that states that players may buy-in for up to 75% of the largest stack on the table.  If the max buy-in at your table is $200 and someone comes over with $600 then you are now able to buy yourself up to $450 if you are that concerned about being out-stacked.

Nick C

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2011, 09:37:31 AM »
Spence,
 Your first post was a real interesting one. I think that we can all see that, based on current rules that we've covered, we can't have it both ways. If a player wins a large amount of money, and wants to quit, he must not play the same limit and type game for 1 hour or he is supposed to return with all of his chips. If he waits, he my enter the game as long as he meets the buy-in requirements for that game. The rules for limit games are much easier to follow because there is no maximum limit required for the buy-in. I don't see how a player can move from one game to the same limit game at another table and not comply with the house rules that apply for the buy-in.
 Brian, to answer your question :Are we really that concerned with a player coming to a table with a large stack?  My answer is YES in a no-limit or pot-limit game. Because of that, your suggestion of putting a percentage of the amount of the highest stack on the table would have to be a house rule, and I guarantee, if that ever happened, you would have a range of different %'s form casino to casino. I think that there are a couple "fixes," that might be easier to introduce:
                                                            1)a.... In no-limit and pot-limit, any player REQUESTING a table change to the same type game; must meet ALL buy-in requirements for that game, including not to exceed the maximum.
                                                               b....or,Any player REQUESTING a table change must meet the minimum buy-in requirement and move all chips to the new table, even if the amount exceeds the maximum buy-in requirements for the game.
                                                                    - OR-
                                                             2) Any player FORCED to move from any game to the same type game will be allowed to enter the new table with the amount that they had at the other table, even if it is LESS than the minimum or MORE than the maximum buy-in established for that game.

Spence

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2011, 03:45:26 PM »
All great responses. I wanted to make one comment on Brian's post

On a related note:  Some rooms already have similar rules, but I am also in favor of implementing a rule that states that players may buy-in for up to 75% of the largest stack on the table.  If the max buy-in at your table is $200 and someone comes over with $600 then you are now able to buy yourself up to $450 if you are that concerned about being out-stacked.

An old rule of some of our local card room's is that in No-Limit, there was no cap on the buy-in. This has changed in most rooms now but perhaps it is not for the better. Maybe we should allow a buy-in up to 100% of the largest stack on the table. I think this might be the most equitable solution to the problem. It should effectively deal with the problem of having a larger stack move to a new table. That said, it'll never happen but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.
Just to refocus this whole post was over moving someone to a new table. Although I am not being supported by my manager(She said to move all chips) I will not allow a person with more than the maximum buy-in to join for one full orbit. After that, it's fair game.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 02:24:14 PM by Spence »

chet

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2011, 05:21:35 PM »
Spence:  I understand your problem, but you are now creating a new problem, one that may be even worse than the max. buy-in issue.  That problem is inconsistent interpretation or application.  In my opinion, one shift interpreting a rule in a different way than another or one manager using a different interpretation than another is worse for the player than the issue we have been discussing.

Since this is a cash game or house rule issue, the TDA, to my knowledge, does not and should not take a position.  Is this something worth loosing your job over?  If you knowingly take a position and interpret rules differently than your manager, it will not take very long for that word to get back to management. 

Having considerable experience in the interpretation of management just cause for dismissal, I don't think you would have much justification for taking/enforcing a position contrary to management direction.

Just my 2 cents worth.

chet

Brian Vickers

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2011, 09:25:52 AM »
Just to refocus this whole post was over moving someone to a new table. Although I am not being supported by my manager(She said to move all chips) I will be enforcing my own rule while I am the manager on duty. I will not allow a person with more than the maximum buy-in to join for one full orbit. After that, it's fair game.

Hopefully your manager doesn't read these boards.

Chet has it right on when he says that inconsistency in rulings is infinitely worse than enforcing a rule you don't agree with.  The players who have been the "victim" of the "incorrect" rule will be even more upset if the next day another player is allowed to do something different.  I've encountered this issue at both poker rooms I've worked in and NOTHING is more frustrating to me.  Nothing.

Spence

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Re: Moving to a new table
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2011, 02:22:40 PM »
INTEGRITY FIRST! Paycheque second... ;D
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 08:18:27 PM by Spence »