Author Topic: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out  (Read 3132 times)

emc300

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Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« on: December 11, 2009, 03:20:11 PM »
I know that a TD has available to them warnings and missed hands as penalties available to them.  My problem is a missed hand penalty is a slap on the wrist in my game.  A big stack can get a penalty at the 300/600 level, take a 900 chip hit and sit back down and still have a big stack.  Since I run a game with no full time dealers at the table, and my players love to rabbit hunt and do other things that if we had dealers would never happen, I decided to hit them where it hurts: stack penalties.  It worked!  No more rabbit hunting, turning over players hands that had been mucked, going into the muck to pull their hand back out to show other people and other things (I am a one man operation).  It only took 2 weeks for people to realize I won't bluffing.  I have not handed out a stack penalty in over 6 months, they got the picture.  Here is my question: I had to get creative to get a point across.  Did I get too creative?  Or is this allowed?  If I didn't do this, I would still have rabbit hunting as an issue. As always, thanks for any help with this.(could this be a potential direction to go down the road?)
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

pokerfish

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2009, 05:01:35 PM »
Hey Matt,
Interesting fix you've come up with and it sounds as though in your "pass the deal" event this might be the only solution. That said, I don't see stack penalties coming to the TDA anytime soon. We've adopted penalties by round (or hand penalties while a TD is discussing a situation with a player) and likely will stick with that. As the TD you can do whatever you need to do to maintain order but taking away a player's chips isn't what we had in mind. I salute your ingenuity with coming up with a fix that works in your Ts. I think the same thing would have worked if you'd given one or more round penalties. If a player rabbit hunts on his own, he's reached into the stub and this would be a penalty IMO. Same thing about digging in the muck. Would your customers have improved their conduct if they'd been given a one penalty round escalating to more and ultimately ejection? I am guessing yes. Again, whatever works for a T in a small locale.... I just don't see it coming to the TDA.
Appreciate your input.
Jan Fisher
Jan Fisher
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http://www.cardplayercruises.com

emc300

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2009, 05:23:10 PM »
Jan, I have tried multiple orbit penalties in the past.  They look at me and laugh it off.  Stack penalties is the only thing I could do to solve the problem.  I have had 1 ejection, but that was a gimmie: outlandish behavior, being drunk in public and acting very rude to the ladies at the table.  Still, my players tell me I run the best game in town....I also run the game with biggest prize pool and the most money to the winner on a weekly basis.  I just do the best that I can and hope that it is good enough.  As long as the TDA is here, that is all I can hope to do.  Thanks again.
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

pokerfish

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 05:29:23 PM »
Matt, It sounds as though you've put together the winning formula for your venue and your players. Bottom line is whatever works is a good thing. You can still be a TDA member and offer TDA rules and to do it all correctly (so that there is no surprise to those who aren't regulars) post the TDA rules and note the exceptions ie how you'll handle rules infractions. Toche for finding a format that works!
Jan Fisher
cardplayercruises.com
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TDA - Board of Directors
http://www.cardplayercruises.com

chet

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2009, 08:23:52 PM »
Matt:

There is NOTHING wrong with what you are doing.  I am going to go out on a limb here, since I am not a board member, and say that the TDA rules are not "cast in concrete".  There a many, many card rooms, casinos that have one or more exceptions to the TDA rules in their day to day operations.  These exceptions are made for a multitude of reasons, some are mandated because local or gaming agency rules mandate a procedure different from what the TDA has adopted as a 'standard', some are made because of individual preferences or because 'that is the way its always been done'.  If you look at the history of the TDA, you will find that standardization on a single set of rules is a long term goal.  Even at the last summit, we had several discussions where one or more of the larger Las Vegas poker rooms have made exceptions to one or more of the adopted rules. 

So, while I agree with Jan, that taking a player's chips is an extreme solution, it may very well be the exception that you needed to take to make the operation of your games more in line with the overall goal of the TDA.

Just remember, as Jan said, to post your rules and note exceptions.  That way there can be no question about how you are going to run your events.

Hope this helps!

emc300

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2009, 04:31:42 AM »
Every little bit helps.  Thank you Jan and Chet for the info on this topic.  No matter what format the forums are in, this is a great way to get answers to all questions.  Thanks again!!
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

Linda Johnson

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Re: Penalties that TDs Can Hand Out
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2009, 02:26:31 AM »
I'm happy that your "stack penalty" solutions have worked to solve your problems but I don't think cardrooms that are controlled by gaming commissions would be able to use stack penalties.
Linda Johnson