Author Topic: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???  (Read 3636 times)

emc300

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TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« on: December 07, 2009, 01:33:37 PM »
I recently played in a team tournament where it was a self dealt game (no dealers) and had an issue where I bet $1700, the next player dropped $2000 in the pot then announced "Raise" AFTER the chips hit the felt.  We all know this is not allowed; here is the issue.  The dealer (remember, no actual dealers), who was to my right said the raise was allowed.  I tried to tell him he said raise after the fact.  He looked at me and said "I'm dealing this hand and what I say goes."  I could not call for the floor fast enough.  The sad part was instead of saying anything like I was not here so let me listen to everyone and determine what is going on, he says "Who is the dealer?  He is in charge."  This is the first (and hopefully last) time I've never heard a TD rule.  I also found out later in the day that the TD and his partners were actually playing in this game!!!!! 

1) Has there ever been a situation where as a TD you do not rule?

2) As the TD, have you ever played in a game YOU ran?

Any help in this matter is greatly appreciated.


Matt Childress
Playing Field
Richmond, VA
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

chet

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Re: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 01:57:50 PM »
Matt:  I know that in many of the "bar" type events the person running the event quite often also plays.  I always did.  That said, I NEVER would put the 'table dealer', "in charge".  If there was a question or a problem at any of my events, I would leave my seat (and many times my hand was folded if the action got around to me before I returned), put on my "TD Hat" and resolve the situation.  I think this is workable as long as the event is 'small', 6-7 tables tops and the buy-ins are low, less than $50. 

If the number of tables or the buy-ins/prize pool get larger then I would expect that event to have a 'full-time', non-playing TD. 

That said, one must remember that the TD isn't doing this out of the goodness of his/her heart.  There has to be some reasonable compensation.  Which in many areas of the country opens a whole new can of worms since someone is now being compensated or the game is 'raked' or ?????.  Many areas allow, or at least look the other way, if there is no rake, fee or compensation other than what is in the pot for the players.  Once that line is crossed, it is a whole new ballgame.

emc300

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Re: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 10:45:44 AM »
Hey Chet, I will also say that my games are bar games as well.  Because of where I live, ALL bar games are freerolls.  99% give points in a league format, I pay cash every night.(As long as there is no buyin, this is legal.)  Because I pay cash and I'm an "independent contractor" and get compensated, I do not play in the games.  There has been too much conflict of interest in TDs playing in the games.  I also tell my players if an issue comes up to call me and I will settle it.  Most of the TDA rules assume a dealer is at the table.  I go by the book, but I have to improvise a lot as well.  As long as the TDA is out there, I will go by the rules set forth here. Keep up the phenomenal work that the TDA does.
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

Linda Johnson

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Re: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 02:22:57 AM »
The situation you refer to obviously is not run professionally. Dealers should never make the decisions IMO...that is what the floor person or TD is for.

Regarding playing in a tournament I directed, the answer is no. If you have access to the chips which the TD has and if you make rulings during the event, I don't think it is proper for the TD to play. For example, I would never play in one of the tournaments on our poker cruises. I have played in tournaments I hosted, however, since I did not have access to the chips and did not make rulings.
Linda Johnson

emc300

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Re: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 08:00:42 PM »
Linda, you are correct.  This was a bar game where it happened.  I come to find out after my last post that the owners do this and allow their TDs to do this.  Like I said earlier, I will never play in a game that I run when I have cash or it is a points game.  I have off season games my players ask me to play in since there is nothing on the line and sometimes I do.  But rarely.  The players have a lot of respect for me and the game I run.  I have the same respect for them.  They are, by far, my greatest asset.
Matt Childress
Playing Field (1990-2010, Gone, but not Forgotten)
Richmond, VA
Twitter: @Matt_Childress

Stuart Murray

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Re: TD rules Dealer in charge!!!???
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 09:50:32 AM »
I remember my first game in the nuts poker league before I bought the franchise area, the game was poorly run, ettiquette was non-existent with string betting, mis-placed blinds after players being eliminated, splashing pots, no all-in pot or split pot management, poor equipment and conduct at the tables.  After three games I made my way presence felt gradualy, and educated players slowly.  Now I run all the games in that venue, the player ettiquette is high, the equipment outstanding and the atmosphere highly enjoyable.  I know I am rambling a tad but just an example of how education and showing players and venues that there is a better way can really make leaps and bounds to improve poker for everyone concerned.

In your situation, it should not of happened, but we as professionals, should look to educate these venues for the betterment of poker, once they see the difference, they will grasp TDA rules with open arms.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director