Author Topic: Two kinds of ANTE  (Read 3659 times)

Guillaume Gleize

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Two kinds of ANTE
« on: October 15, 2010, 06:52:28 AM »
Hello,

I noticed in the differents international structures two great families of ante:

A) The "SOFT" ante never being higher than 10% of the BB (like 1000-2000 ante max 200)
Some tournaments like to use it (like the EPT) to please the players in general.

B) The "HARD" ante never being higher than 10% of the SB+BB (like 1000-2000 ante max 300)
The WSOP use it and some pro players (Hansen, Negreanu) defend it as better for the aggressive players.

I use the "HARD" one for the same reason as the pros but also because I think it's a waste of time to add antes (together with all the handling from the dealers and players) and then to try to make it as little and useless as possible ?!? ... Something isn't logical: let's put antes or not!
  
Wich one do you use & why?

GG
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 06:59:59 AM by Guillaume Gleize »

chet

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Re: Two kinds of ANTE
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2010, 02:39:27 PM »
GG:

I don't think there is any 'right' or 'wrong' was to handles Antes.  The purpose of Antes, as was explained to me many years ago is to speed up the event and to speed up the elimination of the 'short stacks'. 

As the event host, it is up to you to ensure your players have an enjoyable experience and get done within a reasonable time. 

It is certainly possible to eliminate antes altogether and just have the blinds increase sooner, either through shorter rounds or by making the next blind level considerable higher.  The danger of so doing is that your players may feel that they are not getting enough 'play' and look for someone with a more attractive structure. 

So, my opinion is that it doesn't make any difference whether you use option "A" or option "B" as long as you are consistent in your events.

Hope this helps!!

Stuart Murray

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Re: Two kinds of ANTE
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 03:02:10 PM »
I prefer 1/8th of the BB but notice the WSOP was 1/6th and the EPT was 1/10th so it all varies.  I think a good running ante is essential in any structure to smooth out the average stack throughout the tournament, I always think structures without antes are fatally flawed as they create an elastic band effect where when the middle stages of a tournament is reached the average chips in the tournament will be short stacked, antes (mostly) prevent this from happening, realising a smooth flow of eliminations rather as mass eliminations at key stages of the tournament and crapshoot (or bingo) poker occuring, which equates to more work for us!

The majority of players will never find out about these structure problems where there is no ante unless they are running deep in the tournament as the rest will overtighten and then be forced to move in with marginal holdings.

As Chet says I don't think it is essential what level you play your antes at but I do think having them is essential to any good structure, but I do think the higher the ante runs at the better and smoother the tournament is, favouring the better players.

Regards
Stuart
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 03:04:02 PM by Stuart Murray »
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

Guillaume Gleize

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Re: Two kinds of ANTE
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 01:56:30 AM »
TY for your opinion!

Yes Stuart: you're right about the effect of the ante on the tournament.

I allways put antes when managing a tourney with dealers. But it happen to me to manage some special events out of casino & card room (like 500 to 1500 players on an outside event sponsorded by any online poker website) and WITHOUT DEALERS! Then we can't put ante (to complicated and lost of time for the players to do it themselves).

The result makes you right: so many "amateurs" who are no more hurried by antes let themself going down to 10BB before starting to push. This making all the tournament going down to a terrible average of 10 to 20BB (instead of the usual 40 to 50BB) ... and this EVEN IF THE REST OF THE STRUCTURE IS GREAT!

So when at least I get Dealers : not only I put antes ... but "big" ones: MAX = (SB+BB) x 10%!

Best regards,
GG
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 02:05:36 AM by Guillaume Gleize »

AleaLeedsCardRoom

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Re: Two kinds of ANTE
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 02:15:59 PM »
We have antes at max 1/8 (12.5%) of the BB and I find it works, also we have them with player dealt tournaments, although not to the same scale as the previously mentioned ones!!!  With the player dealt games I hardly have a problem as one player is normally nominated to be the "ante police" and they collect the antes while the dealer is shuffeling/dealing which works really well, some of them carry on when we put dealers on the tables, which I know from experience helps speed things up a bit!!!

Dave Lamb

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Re: Two kinds of ANTE
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 08:31:51 PM »
I am a bit late to this topic but I do want to add one important observation to these posts.

The ante is often the only reason the big stacks are compelled to remain in the game and at the table. If not for the ante many players would go to the bar, take a nap, or generally checkout until their chips carried them into the money. Antes are a great innovation to poker structures.