Author Topic: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown  (Read 3630 times)

AleaLeedsCardRoom

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5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« on: August 25, 2010, 12:33:01 PM »
One of my regulars gave me this story and I thought the ruling made was wrong, so lets see what we all think.
FIrst hand of the tourney, player A holds pocket 6s and player B holds pocket As, flop comes rag rag 6 and all the money goes in, turn comes an A and the river is another rag.  So we have a set of 6s and a set of As for players A and B respectively.

However 2 players are adament that they have folded an Ace, the muck is checked and it is discovered that there are 2 Ace of hearts in the deck, making 5 As in total.

How do you rule??

Nick C

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 03:00:41 PM »
Without looking for a ruling in Robert's Rules, I'd say it was a misdeal and all chips should be returned to all players. It is an interesting situation because if the next hand were dealt, then that hand would stand.

Stuart Murray

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 04:18:53 PM »
It is a misdeal, and all monies are returned to their respective bettors, as per Nick's post.

RROP further says that a player who knows the deck is defective must point it out, which is exactly what happened by the 2 players speaking up during the hand.

Regards
Stuart
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AleaLeedsCardRoom

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 04:36:51 PM »
I would agree with you two and RRoP, how ever the TD att he time said the hand stands as everyone has been advantaged/disadvantaged the same.  I would disagree with that statement as it is a set of Aces that won the hand and there were 5 aces in the deck.  Is there anytime when you think that would be an appropiate response, as I am struggleing to find the logic!!!!

Stuart Murray

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 05:13:53 PM »
Think it would be too big a can of worm to open Lewis,

If it was a boda fide deck there was no aces remaining in the deck so the pocket 6's would/could win in that circumstance, where would you draw the line????

RROP is VERY specific that the hand MUST be a misdeal, one of the good reasons American Poker dealers spread their decks before use.

See too many standards that are very poor in the UK where decks are thrown down and sometimes not even proofed before use! it takes Croupiers and Cardroom Supervisors about 2 extra seconds to spread open a deck on each table, it will take 5 minutes to re-create the betting and return everyones bets to players when a defective deck is discovered.

Stu
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AleaLeedsCardRoom

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 05:25:53 PM »
I agree completely with you, it saves such a lot of hassle.  I used to get complaints when we changed the deck with every new dealer, since word has spread of this incident everyone is happy:D

Dave Lamb

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 08:14:42 PM »
Posted by: AleaLeedsCardRoom 
Insert Quote
I would agree with you two and RRoP, how ever the TD att he time said the hand stands as everyone has been advantaged/disadvantaged the same.  I would disagree with that statement as it is a set of Aces that won the hand and there were 5 aces in the deck.  Is there anytime when you think that would be an appropiate response, as I am struggleing to find the logic!!!!

You might be tempted to use that logic whenever the underdog with two sixes makes his set and it stands up in a deck with 5 aces. I would always refund all money in fouled decks and avoid the temptation to overthink it.

Luca P.

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2010, 04:14:36 AM »
But what happens if it's not the first hand of the tourney?
Let's say, we are already at 5 level of tourneys, where some players have been busted out form that table.
What happens if it's discovered later?
What would you say and do?
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Stuart Murray

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Re: 5 Aces discovered in the deck at the showdown
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2010, 04:37:52 AM »
RROP Covers previous hands by stating that all previous hands must stand, only the active hand can be ruled a misdeal. 

Stuart
Stuart Murray
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National Tournament Director