Author Topic: 1 card at the SB  (Read 3676 times)

dogzy

  • TDA Member & Active Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 15
1 card at the SB
« on: June 23, 2010, 01:37:29 PM »
Hello,

I have an interesting case:
MTT full ring, UTG folds, UTG+1 call, UTG+2 folds, MP raises and before Hi-jack talks, player on SB announces that he has only one card.

I talked with several persons and had different opinions on what to do:
1. give a second card.
2. Burn the hand
3. let the player continue the hand with one card

What do you think?

Thanks!

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 02:18:33 PM »
dogzy,
 A quick response from someone who is not versed on all the abbreviations. Two players acted after the blinds, so substantial action is valid. The small blind player should have brought attention to the dealer mistake sooner. I would call the SB hand dead and allow the hand to play-out between the remaining players. Giving another card in that situation would only bring up other issues as far as "proper card." That's interesting but, what else can you do.
 
That's what I would do.

chet

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 733
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 03:48:44 PM »
Nick:

UTG = Under The Gun, ie., 1st player to the left of the BB
UTG+1 = 2nd player to the left of the BB, etc., etc.
MP = Middle position player

Dogzy:

I agree with Nick that the proper way to resolve this is to declare the SB hand dead.  It is his responsibility to bring the fact that he has a problem to the attention of the dealer BEFORE there is any substantial action.   Also, I believe that the only game in which a player can continue with less than the proper number of hole cards is STUD.

Hope this helps!

Stuart Murray

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
    • The Nuts Poker League
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 04:15:53 PM »
agreed with Nick and Chet, the only outcome is the SB's hand is dead, as substantial action has occurred before the discrepancy was raised.  At the moment substantial action is considered to occur when 2 players after the BB have acted on their hand, this even includes UTG and UTG+1 just folding their hands.

If for example UTG passes/calls/raises and before UTG+1 acts the SB draws attention to the anomaly the hand is a misdeal, the only player that can receive a card off the top of the deck is the button if they only have one card and draw attention to it in the correct time scale, or in the case of an exposed card, who is receiving the first burn card in replacement.

Best Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

dogzy

  • TDA Member & Active Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 01:27:58 AM »
Thanks to everybody!

Sorry Nick for the abreviations!  ;)

It seems I'm not so bad, cause i would have answerered that the SB hand is head. In my opinion, players must pay attention to the game, if they don't, it's not possible to correct their mistakes....

Best regards!

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2010, 06:04:43 AM »
dogzy,
 No apology necessary. My ignorance of the abbreviations should not restrict others from using them. The only abbreviations I knew were UTG and UTG-1 etc. I prefer not to use them because I think that there are members that are new to poker and they might not understand either. I'm still learning. Thanks for the interesting topic to discuss.

edlerman

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2010, 04:56:01 PM »
I'd be interested to hear from somebody at the TDA as to whether in this spot it would be appropriate to deal one additional burn card before the flop in order to keep the flop as natural as possible?  We keep natural flop turns and rivers where possible as a house rule, but i'd like to know the TDA take on the situation.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2010, 05:18:41 PM »
edlerman,

 I'm not the one you requested but, I'd like to give my take and then we can have some issues to discuss. My call would be that no extra burn be used. The reasoning is; with the SB already skipped no one has their "proper card." I understand exactly what you are saying, and if that was a house rule, you could justify that call. I would put it in a category of "randomization" where any unknown card will give players an equal chance to win or loose. A normal deal in a cash game will skip an absent player but, in a tournament, even when we know the player won't be at the table for the current hand, we deal him in anyway, thus changing everyones cards. Good question. I hope my explanation makes sense. I don't know of any writen rule that covers that exact situation. It would be nice to hear from one of the TDA experts.

Stuart Murray

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
    • The Nuts Poker League
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2010, 05:46:25 PM »
As per Nick, I am not a board member so cannot comment on the official line, but any experience I have had is that in the best interests of the game, the board runs from the stub as normal.

To make a rule that a card missing from the hole cards requires an extra burn card would cause more difficulties than it would solve - think of it like this a player has 3 cards thus this would therefore require no burn card for the first street which is out of the question.  The sole reason we burn cards on each street is to prevent any possibility of a player seeing the card which is coming off the deck next, the board has been irrevocably altered in both instances, there is also no saying that even if the player only has one card it may have went off the table etc so to maintain integrity only one board card should be used.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

higavin

  • TDA Member & Active Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: 1 card at the SB
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 05:55:00 PM »
The reason you kill the SB and continue with the hand is, as stated above, significant action has taken place.  With that, nothing else should change in the hand, it should proceed forward from there as if nothing had happened.

This is a basic ruling in poker, cash game or tournament.